This Week's Ribbon Bar Fakes!

[landsknechte]

This one is downright disorienting...

[Stogieman]

Our Austrian "friend" has had a busy week making some rather interesting new bars!

[Stogieman]

another:

[Stogieman]

another one:

[Stogieman]

and another:

[Stogieman]

and another:

[Stogieman]

and another:

[Stogieman]

Personally, I find this individual to be more dangerous than the first gentleman... he of course has a nice group of very big medal bars made this week as well....

[Stogieman]

He's really quite good, isn't he?

[Stogieman]

and another

[Stogieman]

and another

[Paul R]

From the photos present, what gives this set away? I would have thought this to be an awesome non combattant bar!!

[Stogieman]

Flat bottom, non-Prussian mounting style, banned Honor Legion Medal mounted with an Honor Cross, looks like a crude, hand-snipped catch for the pin.

But mostly for me, guilty by association.

[Mark M]

Rick

Your Austrian friend has been at it again.

[attachmentid=44703]

[attachmentid=44704]

[webr55]

What do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...em=200004801050

A little too ambitious, isn't it? In any case, not Austrian.

[Willi]

I would like to hear some opinions please about that medal bar. Can it be correct?[attachmentid=47838]

[Guest Rick Research]

Assuming that is the 1905 Luitpold...

possible, yes.

Likely, no.

There was exactly ONE officer with this combination of Orders and the quite rare double combatant China and Africa medals. I can even place him at Fouphing AND he was in Southwest Africa late.

BUT

I cannot confirm the Ludwigkreuz (though his awards in 1916 and the date of his BMV4XmKr support it) and

that EK2 Spange when he was born in 1875 is rather unlikely.

The only possible officer was also a senior civil servant after leaving the army-- and there is no Treudienstkreuz on here. (Though possibly he was purged before 1938 and so did not receive one.)

Possible, yes.

Likely, no.

But the more I ponder this, the more I think that unlikely or not, it very likely IS the original medal bar of the ONLY officer I think it could have belonged to.

What does the BACK of the medal bar look like? THAT is what will tell is whether the bar is a new fraud or not.

[Willi]

Assuming that is the 1905 Luitpold...

possible, yes.

Likely, no.

There was exactly ONE officer with this combination of Orders and the quite rare double combatant China and Africa medals. I can even place him at Fouphing AND he was in Southwest Africa late.

BUT

I cannot confirm the Ludwigkreuz (though his awards in 1916 and the date of his BMV4XmKr support it) and

that EK2 Spange when he was born in 1875 is rather unlikely.

The only possible officer was also a senior civil servant after leaving the army-- and there is no Treudienstkreuz on here. (Though possibly he was purged before 1938 and so did not receive one.)

Possible, yes.

Likely, no.

But the more I ponder this, the more I think that unlikely or not, it very likely IS the original medal bar of the ONLY officer I think it could have belonged to.

What does the BACK of the medal bar look like? THAT is what will tell is whether the bar is a new fraud or not.

Could you please post the officer's name?

[Claudio]

Hi Willi,

This bar was already discussed on another German forum:

http://www.militaria-fundforum.de/thread.php?threadid=67918

Major Rohe:

Geboren 1875, 1894 "Freiwillig-Gemeiner" 18. IR Prinz Ludwig Ferdinand, Febr. 1899 Leutnant. 1901/02 Einsatz in China, danach altes Regiment, dann 1905 - 1908 S?dwest-Afrika. Wieder altes Regiment, dort 1911 Bef?rderung zum Hauptmann. 1914 - 1916 1. WK, dann wegen schwere Verwundung ausgeschieden, das K?nig-Ludwig-Kreuz wurde verliehen, weil seine Schwester eine Stiftung unter seinem Namen mit einem gr??eren Geldbetrag ins Leben rief. Ab 1918 wieder in der bayerischen Armee aktiv, danach bis 1920 Reichswehr. Dann bis 1939 keine Informationen, wird dann im Winter 1939 Kommandeur eines Baubataillons mit Dienstgrad Major mit Einsatz in Frankreich, knapp 65 Jahre alt, erh?lt die Spange zum EK 2. Klasse am 4.7.1940, danach Ruhestand und stirbt im Jahre 1944.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Willi]

Hi Willi,

This bar was already discussed on another German forum:

http://www.militaria-fundforum.de/thread.php?threadid=67918

Major Rohe:

Geboren 1875, 1894 "Freiwillig-Gemeiner" 18. IR Prinz Ludwig Ferdinand, Febr. 1899 Leutnant. 1901/02 Einsatz in China, danach altes Regiment, dann 1905 - 1908 S?dwest-Afrika. Wieder altes Regiment, dort 1911 Bef?rderung zum Hauptmann. 1914 - 1916 1. WK, dann wegen schwere Verwundung ausgeschieden, das K?nig-Ludwig-Kreuz wurde verliehen, weil seine Schwester eine Stiftung unter seinem Namen mit einem gr??eren Geldbetrag ins Leben rief. Ab 1918 wieder in der bayerischen Armee aktiv, danach bis 1920 Reichswehr. Dann bis 1939 keine Informationen, wird dann im Winter 1939 Kommandeur eines Baubataillons mit Dienstgrad Major mit Einsatz in Frankreich, knapp 65 Jahre alt, erh?lt die Spange zum EK 2. Klasse am 4.7.1940, danach Ruhestand und stirbt im Jahre 1944.

Ciao,

Claudio

Thank you!

[Guest Rick Research]

That is incorrect. His name was Wilhelm REUSS. 18th Infantry, yes--having transferred in from the 1st Bavarian J?ger Battalion before WW1.

SekLt 27.2.96

Oberlt 20.3.06 later backdated to 28.10.04

Hptm 7.3.10

Major 17.1.17

In April 1916's secret Bavarian Rank List, he shows only an EK2 for WW1.

His BMV4XmKr was awarded 6 December 1917, so even that is the correct type on the bar.

He was alive in 1955, with final rank and civil service grade in retirement as shown in that year's directory for former members of the Bavarian Kadettenkorps (1884-94 in his case). Date of birth 8 December 1875. Living in Landshut in 1955.

See the following sources:

Bavarian Army Rank Lists 1903, 1909, 1914, 1916, 1918. Prussia/W?rttemberg/Colonal Forces Rank List 1901 (China), 1907 (Southwest Afrika). A. von M?ller's "Unsere Marine" showing all officers serving in China and their home units. Autengruber's published roll of BMV4XmKr and BMV4X to Hauptleute (Reuss never got one-- his was a DIRECT bestowal with Crown as a Major). BKK directory 1955. He died before 1969, when he was NOT listed in that year's BKK directory.

Without period sourcing, where is the EVIDENCE for those assertions (incorrect about name and 1896 commission date, and being "discharged" dring the war) about sister, Ludwig Cross, EK2 Spange etc?

Julius Rohe, who details overlap a bit (same colonial service, birth year, same 1896 Lt Patent) was indeed discharged before 1916. His BMV4XmKr was gazetted 24 July 1919 as "Hauptmann aD" although he was active transferred to the Bavarian 5th Infantry Regiment before the war. That regiment shows him as char Major aD in the Honor Rank List 1914-18-- but I would have expected a HT to have gone to him, in that regiment. And I cannot conceive of somebody so badly wounded they were DISCHARGED during WW1 being recalled in a combat capacity 25 years later!!!

If it WAS Rohe... I have absolutely nothing in period references which places him as being alive beyond 1926.

[Willi]

That is incorrect. His name was Wilhelm REUSS. 18th Infantry, yes--having transferred in from the 1st Bavarian J?ger Battalion before WW1.

SekLt 27.2.96

Oberlt 20.3.06 later backdated to 28.10.04

Hptm 7.3.10

Major 17.1.17

In April 1916's secret Bavarian Rank List, he shows only an EK2 for WW1.

His BMV4XmKr was awarded 6 December 1917, so even that is the correct type on the bar.

He was alive in 1955, with final rank and civil service grade in retirement as shown in that year's directory for former members of the Bavarian Kadettenkorps (1884-94 in his case). Date of birth 8 December 1875. Living in Landshut in 1955.

See the following sources:

Bavarian Army Rank Lists 1903, 1909, 1914, 1916, 1918. Prussia/W?rttemberg/Colonal Forces Rank List 1901 (China), 1907 (Southwest Afrika). A. von M?ller's "Unsere Marine" showing all officers serving in China and their home units. Autengruber's published roll of BMV4XmKr and BMV4X to Hauptleute (Reuss never got one-- his was a DIRECT bestowal with Crown as a Major). BKK directory 1955. He died before 1969, when he was NOT listed in that year's BKK directory.

Without period sourcing, where is the EVIDENCE for those assertions (incorrect about name and 1896 commission date, and being "discharged" dring the war) about sister, Ludwig Cross, EK2 Spange etc?

Julius Rohe, who details overlap a bit (same colonial service, birth year, same 1896 Lt Patent) was indeed discharged before 1916. His BMV4XmKr was gazetted 24 July 1919 as "Hauptmann aD" although he was active transferred to the Bavarian 5th Infantry Regiment before the war. That regiment shows him as char Major aD in the Honor Rank List 1914-18-- but I would have expected a HT to have gone to him, in that regiment. And I cannot conceive of somebody so badly wounded they were DISCHARGED during WW1 being recalled in a combat capacity 25 years later!!!

If it WAS Rohe... I have absolutely nothing in period references which places him as being alive beyond 1926.

The evidence for the assortion that it was Rohe's medal bar is his personal military record which still is in the Bavarian War Archive in Munich. I own a copy of the award document for the 1939 bar to the Iron Cross.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah! So you ALREADY knew who this bar belonged to, and this was merely an exercise in yanking our chains and wasting anyone's time who replied, NOT "asking for help" but trying on the old Trick Question Act?---

Thanks for clarifying that!

Won't happen again.

NOT the way gentlemen behave.

[Willi]

Ah! So you ALREADY knew who this bar belonged to, and this was merely an exercise in yanking our chains and wasting anyone's time who replied, NOT "asking for help" but trying on the old Trick Question Act?---

Thanks for clarifying that!

Won't happen again.

NOT the way gentlemen behave.

I do not think it was a waste of time.

[Stogieman]

he's Back........