Gary B Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 (edited) Hi, Having just read an article in the recent issue of JOMSA on this order I thought I would post a picture of these 3 classes. Although the 3rd class was awarded approx 70,000 times, the 2nd class was only awarded 600 times and the 1st class a mere 13 times. These awards were purchased in the early 90s in Russia. All orders are numbered on the reverse but the 2nd class falls outside of the range of issued numbers and would probably be an unissued piece. Opinions welcome. (Since our own Rick Reasearch was given speical thanks in the article I hope he will weigh in on these pieces...)Gary B Edited April 30, 2007 by Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 (edited) Rvs3rd class: 1023262nd class: 08001st class: 7 Edited April 30, 2007 by Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I'm going to say that they're unissued pieces, and my gut tells me that the 1st class is bad - but I caveat that by saying that I'm not an expert in either the 1st or 2nd classes. I can say that back in 1996 I saw an extraordinary set of these for sale at the Great Western show in California and the seller was open about the fact that they were "exceptional" copies, that he had brought out of Russia back in 1994/95. That to say that they have been making these for quite a while now! Onto something I DO know about... the 3rd class may well be an issued one from the late 80s or early 90s. I would say that it's probably worth researching. Also, the Homeland 2nds with the 800 series numbers all seem to be awarded in February 1978, and of course Homeland 1st 7 was issued, but it probably isn't this one. If you could post up larger pics of each award, that would be great.DaveP.S. I'm the author of the article you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Hi Dave, Great article. I did not know it was you since I did not, up till this point, know your name! I will post better pictures tomorrow, if I can get around to it (wife is on travel and I am running the kids around). We had PMed previously about a large collection of Soviet awards I had in my possesion that I was trying to research. All were purchased in 1993 in Russia and include everything from these orders to Hero of the Soviet Union, Lenins etc. I dont know much about Soviet orders so this will be very helpful to me.Talk to you soon.Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Dear Gary,many thanks for showing this great set to us .The Motherland 2cl seems to me problem free, due to the nice, genuine & old patina at the silver rays at the star and #800 is a very low s/n.I don't like the s/n. and the rv. of the Motherland 1cl.Here are my two sets of Motherland 2cl & 3cl. The left column is unissued and fresh from the stock of a military command (and with very, very high s/n.). The right column seems to be issued - low s/n. & traces of wearing. Sorry for the bad scan :Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Homeland - present market situationGentlemen,for long years the Homeland was not very much sought after and called the "ugly crab".Now the situation changed and the "crabs" sell very, very fast - when you are looking into the "sales-sections" of the major collectors platforms - and the price level is getting higher.They are already rather hard to obtain - specially the 2nd class of that order.Recently in Helsinki at the auction a Homeland 2cl sold for USD 2.300,- (that's the price level of a Nevsky T2 !!!) and a (low numbered) Homeland 3cl sold for USD 920,-.I personally love the design of the Homeland, because it shows all elements of the Soviet Forces + a Hero Star .The "crab" is not only big & heavy, but it is great .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Gents, here are some addition al pictures. Lighting was poor so the pictures are a little dark.....1st up is the 3rd class.Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Rvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 1st class obvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Rvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Detail Obvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Detail Rvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Dear Gary,also the Motherland 1cl looks convincing at the larger scans - except the number, which I haven't seen in that form before.You should ask GMIC-member Andrew "Mondvor" - he is the expert.The problem is, that not many people have had an 100 % genuine Motherland 1cl in their hands .Do you have further documentation and expertise about the Motherlands - receipient, etc.?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Dear Christian, Thanks for your comments.I am primarily a 3rd Reich collector and have only dabbled in Russian medals. These 3 medals are part of a larger collection of about 6 riker mounts full of soviet awards that were all purchased in 1993 in Russia. I have pictured an Order of Lenin that is part of the colleciton in a separate thread. Some of the orders have books/citations with them but I have to dig them out (including an Hero of the Soviet Union).Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Dear Gary,what are "riker mounts" ? Sorry ...., I am Austrian .For just to have dabbled in Soviet Orders a HSU, screwback Lenin, Motherland-Trio, etc. it's quite a lot .1993 had been a good time for Soviet Awards: Low prices & and not so many (high-end) fakes at the market.Seems, that you made around 1000 % profit with your investment at least .Best regards ChristianDear Christian, Thanks for your comments.I am primarily a 3rd Reich collector and have only dabbled in Russian medals. These 3 medals are part of a larger collection of about 6 riker mounts full of soviet awards that were all purchased in 1993 in Russia. I have pictured an Order of Lenin that is part of the colleciton in a separate thread. Some of the orders have books/citations with them but I have to dig them out (including an Hero of the Soviet Union).Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauptmann Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Dear Gary,what are "riker mounts" ? Sorry ...., I am Austrian .For just to have dabbled in Soviet Orders a HSU, screwback Lenin, Motherland-Trio, etc. it's quite a lot .1993 had been a good time for Soviet Awards: Low prices & and not so many (high-end) fakes at the market.Seems, that you made around 1000 % profit with your investment at least .Best regards ChristianHi Christian,Just wanted to pop in real quick on this one. Riker Mounts are trays, generally made of heavy cardstock (cardboard), usually black in color, although they are also made with plastic now, with a glass top.They were originally used in scientific collections, like butterflies and insect specimens. But later became popular as a way to display many different types of collectibles. I'm sure you've seen tons of them but just knew them by a different name, as they are very popular among those who deal at flea markets, shops and shows.Hope this helps. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Dear Dan,many thanks my friend for your fantastic explaination .In my youth I collected butterflies in such wooden cases with glass top. My daughter has them now .BTW: The "Homeland" would be the perfect item for your collection: hughe, heavy & impressive . Alexi http://home.netcom.com/~merezhko/orders.html still offers the 3cl for mere USD 350,-. But the tragic fact is, that for the bucks to spent for a decent Motherland 3cl + 2cl, you could almost acquire a large and rather comprehensive collection of the most important YU-Awards .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Homeland-questionsGentlemen,coming back to the Order of Homeland.Homeland 1cl has usually a 3-digit-s/n. So the engraving of the s/n. in the documented case should be "007" and not "7".The red PMD-bible states, that they have seen (almost 10 years ago!) Homeland 1cl with s/n. from 14 to 454 and Homeland 2cl from 1.323 to 2.951.So, both of the documented 1cl & 2cl are below the documented range of s/n.But there has to be evidence, which cavalier received the Homeland 1cl s/n. 7 ?My two Homeland-pairs (2cl & 3cl) have following s/n.:- 2.213 & 128.584 (unissued)- 1.604 & 24.327 (different receipients!)So, the question remains:- why has the Homeland 1cl "7" and not "007" ?- who has got the Homeland 1cl "7" and how well is that case doucmented ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddywhack Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 ach this is another if id only know better situations for me!! a 3rd clss one of these was on sale a few years back here in dublin and i passed on it cos i only at the time want wanted ww2 russian stuff!!!! and the price was a mere 150 irish pounds!!!!if only id gone for it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Awaiting research... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 A pic from around Mamaev Kurgan on Victory Day last week... this guy has done some interesting stuff I am sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 (edited) A pic from around Mamaev Kurgan on Victory Day last week... this guy has done some interesting stuff I am sure!Dear Bob,there is something very wrong with that proud Lt.-General .Look at his right chest at the two flashy & shiny medals:- Distinguished Military Service Medal 1st class- Distinguished Military Service Medal 2nd classThat is simply not possible, because these medals were only given to privates & NCOs .These medals were instituted together with the "Motherlands" at the 28th of october 1974: Motherland for officers & generals and the 2 medals for privates & NCOs.My theory: Due to the fact, that these medals are really looking good and show an excellent design, I assume that our general simply went to the stock of his HQ and took them out, filled in the papers and put them to his uniform.This photograph is as strange, as a photograph showing a starshina with a Suvorov 1st class .Best regards Christian Edited May 12, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Christian - would you walk up to him and tell him "excuse me sir, you shouldn't wear those awards"? If so, please let me know in advacne so I can position my camera for an interesting scene:)Seriously, interesting point you raise. I am not aware of such details on Soviet awards so rely on the experts to spot these issues. Sort of like "stolen valor" issue in US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Christian - would you walk up to him and tell him "excuse me sir, you shouldn't wear those awards"? If so, please let me know in advacne so I can position my camera for an interesting scene:)Dear Bob,no problem, I would do that job .BTW: You don't know, who this general is with the NCO-medals ? At least we could write him a letter ...Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Any general who wears one of those silly "Viagra hats" could surely be expected to -- well -- "augment" his medals?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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