May Day Greetings!

[Ed_Haynes]

Best wishes for May Day, Comrades!

[pluribus]

Best wishes for May Day, Comrades!

Is this a joke? Communism is going to be proclaimed as ideology against humanity. Stalin and Lenin both were amongst the utmost criminals. As much as I understand this forum must be free of ideology ( and NOT only german nazi but soviet also). Am I wrong?

[Ed_Haynes]

Is this a joke? Communism is going to be proclaimed as ideology against humanity. Stalin and Lenin both were amongst the utmost criminals. As much as I understand this forum must be free of ideology ( and NOT only german nazi but soviet also). Am I wrong?

History, not ideology. Of course.

Are you wrong? In your understanding of history, that is. How much space do I have . . . ???

[Kev in Deva]

Pluribus,

Fact: the Nazis and their version Fascism exsisted.

Fact: the Soviets and their version of Communisum exsisted.

Fact: May Day was always seen as a holiday for the "Workers"

Fact: Mr Ed_Haynes post is not out to gloryfie Communisum, Joe Stalin, or Lenin.

Perhaps when you have spent more time here you will recognise that fact.

Kevin in Deva.

[pluribus]

Kev in Deva,

So you don`t see any problem if I will post a poster showing Hitler and banner with swastika as May Day greetings.

You know that May Day was seen as a holiday in nazi Germany too.

I can`t see any problem if this poster will be posted as a historical item. It`s nice and interesting but it was posted as an ideologial item (which is calling to the victory of the communism).

Best regards,

pluribus

[Paul R]

Kev in Deva,

So you don`t see any problem if I will post a poster showing Hitler and banner with swastika as May Day greetings.

You know that May Day was seen as a holiday in nazi Germany too.

I can`t see any problem if this poster will be posted as a historical item. It`s nice and interesting but it was posted as an ideologial item (which is calling to the victory of the communism).

Best regards,

pluribus

This thread was neither meant to be one of idealogy or an insitgator of a "pissing contest". Ed was simply making note of a significant day in history.

Most of us here are have more than a basic understanding of both regimes, so there is no need for comparisions of the TWO evils.

Pluribus, you need to relax. You are welcome here, but instigating the club staff is not a good start!

[pluribus]

Thank you. I have no problems with relaxing . I just don?t like the double-standards and hypocrisy.

Also, my posts are not made to instigate or to not instigate somebody.

So, I am ready to go, if this is not acceptable.

Best regards,

pluribus

[Paul R]

Hi Pluribus,

I feel that we all have a lot to learn from one another. It is not my wish that you go. It is my desire that we respect one another and have a good time .

[order_of_victory]

Happy may day guys

Well in Britain we are celebrating may day by Striking, so power to the people

Order of Victory

Edited May 1, 2007 by order_of_victory

[Michael Johnson]

Happy may day guys

Well in Britain we are celebrating may day by Striking, so power to the people

Here in Canada it's "Well that's the tax return for another year." Now to try to replace the money I had to shell out."

[Kev in Deva]

I can`t see any problem if this poster will be posted as a historical item. It`s nice and interesting but it was posted as an ideologial item (which is calling to the victory of the communism).

You forgot to add the words "In my opinion" in your reply, it is only in your opinion "it was posted as an ideologial item (which is calling to the victory of the communism). Unless you have evidence contary to this.

You will not find anywhere on this forum any postings allowed by any members, that are Pro-Communisum or Pro-Fascist allowed, but increasingly it seems you have a very anti-Soviet agenda, and I dont think this forum is suited to what you require.

As far as I am concerened most of the members, if not all, post here out of a genuine desire to know more about the military artifacts that the collect, most, if not all, dont come here to preach how one-side or the other were more evil.

I would like to believe that its a simple misunderstanding caused between people's who have been living on different sides of the fence for so long.

But, please understand this, nobody will be allowed to use his membership of G.M.I.C. to post Pro-this or Pro-that statements.

Or declare we have double standards, and are hipocritical, because there is no truth to that statement.

Prior to 1936 - 45 there was perceived to be only two choices for the people of Europe, Communist or Fascist, since the end of 1945 people have realised there is another choice its called being Democratic, today in the "Free world" you can follow other alternatives than the two listed above.

Many of our members have travelled to many countries, many live in other countries, many have had military service in one form or another, many others are civilians, many are well educated, and some not so well educated,(I include myself in the latter catagory with regards education). But, all share a passion for military history and the items that are associated with it.

If I collect Soviet items does that make me a communist?

If I collect iii-reich items does that make me a nazi?

If I collect Rodhesia & South African items am I a racist?

We collect, we compare, we ask questions, but, above all we do not preach about the politics or past empires.

Many of us have no idea what life was like under domination of the Communists, Many of us have no idea personaly about life under nazi occupation, unless told by our Grand-parents, The East was fenced off from us after WW2 ended.

But, you cannot hold us responsible for the past crimes commited by the Soviets, when we were under the threat of the "Cold War".

But, what we do have in the west is the memory of the thousands of citizens of our countries who gave their lives in WW2 to stop the nazi's and japanese.

Communism is gone, is it dead?, I doubt it, there will be a great period of change and re-adjustment, that does not mean you go back to following the fascist's of pre-communist times, its time to look forward.

We, in the west faced this immediately after the end of WW2, the old Colonial Empires were finished, independence was coming for many Nations around the Globe, we in Western Europe faced the uncertainty and difficulties, as now former Soviet controlled countries have to face them, but there is one benifit standing by to help, the E.U. (although not everybody will agree that the E. U. is so benificial, ) but what country can aford to stand alone and prosper??

This is how I see it, and it might be simple of me to think of it this way.

Kevin in Deva

[Paul R]

Well put, Kevin.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Kevin,

my respect: Very wise, clever and scientific words .

"Prior to 1936 - 45 there was perceived to be only two choices for the people of Europe, Communist or Fascist" - that's the point . Historians have to analyze the events in their concrete context of their time. So it is quite insane - in our profession - to tell (dealing with the years 1936 - 1945), that Communism had severe shortcomings (it had of course) and to put it at the same level of evil as Fascism. The undisputed historic fact is, that Communism had been the lesser evil choice for the people (not only for Jews, Serbs and other Slavonic people!), than Fascism at that period of time - AND you had only the choice between these two forms of society at continental Europe !!!!

The following period of the "Cold War" - West vs. East - had been an authentic war by very special means. History doesn't know one war, where it had been easy and free for anyone to cross the frontlines. So much to "Iron Curtain", "Berlin Wall", activities of state security & secret services in East AND West, etc., etc.

Coming back to the commentaries of Mr. Pluribus: It sounds not very educated to state, that "Communism is going to be proclaimed as ideology against humanity". What is Communism? The early Christian communities in the Middle East, the Christian Jesuit State of Paraquay in the 17th & 18th century, etc., etc. - that's Communism in the very pure form.

To tell to the internationally renowed US-Universityprofessor for History, Edward Haynes, that a "Lenin were amongst the utmost criminals" is a very strong offense, in my opinion.

In Europe - at least in Germany & Austria - it is hughe legal difference, if you say: "Communism or Socialism is fine" or "Nazism or Fascism is fine". The first statement is your scientific and/or ethic/religious point of view and you are free to state this where ever you want. The second statement means prison: In Austria up to 10 years jail and in Germany around 2 years jail.

So, it is in fact a gigantic legal and constitutional difference, if Prof. Haynes adresses GMIC-members of the Communist-section with "Comrades" and shows a historic poster of Lenin & Stalin at the 1st of may, or another one adresses GMIC-members of the Communist-section with "Volksgenossen" and shows a historic poster of Adolf Hitler with a swastika.

I think that Mr. Pluribus might fit better into some other collectors platforms in the www .

GMIC-members are interested to do some research about decorations & militaria in their historic context - at least in the sections, where I am active: Soviet & Communist Era Militaria & Awards and Austria-Hungary -, to have some fun & suspense at Christophe's quiz and to have every now and then a discussion among Gentlemen about a historic event. The inputs of Mr. Pluribus to "Soviet & Communist Era Militaria & Awards" had been - so far - neither educated, nor fruitful, but only nasty and offensive .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Dear Ed, many thanks for your May Day Greetings .

Edited May 1, 2007 by Christian Zulus

[Tom Y]

Let's forget our differences, circle round and sing a rousing chorus of Joe Hill

[Kev in Deva]

Let's forget our differences, circle round and sing a rousing chorus of Joe Hill

Hallo Tom Y

Is that the song with "Hand me down another can of lima beans" in the chorus?? Kevin in Deva.

[Tom Y]

Hallo Tom Y

Is that the song with "Hand me down another can of lima beans" in the chorus?? Kevin in Deva.

Nope, this'un

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Kevin,

you can see (& hear) Joan Baez singing that ballade of Joe Hill at the "Woodstock"-DVD.

Wiki-link to comrade Joe Hill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill .

True Socialism had been rather strong in the USA in the 1930s & 1940s .

Best regards

Christian

Edited May 2, 2007 by Christian Zulus

[Ed_Haynes]

True Socialism had been rather strong in the USA in the 1930s & 1940s .

While FDR nearly killed us . . . as Monty Python (almost) put it: "We're not dead yet".

(Proud member, IWW, IU 620.)

[hunyadi]

While FDR nearly killed us . . .

Yes and the thugs of his vice president nearly killed my great-grandfather... but Happy Labor Day!

[Michael Johnson]

I dreamed I saw St. Augustine

And nearly had a fit

But Gus I said You're centuries dead

"Non mortuus sum." ait.

[Tom Y]

I dreamed I saw St. Augustine

And nearly had a fit

But Gus I said You're centuries dead

"Non mortuus sum." ait.

:lol:

[Tom Y]

While FDR nearly killed us . . . as Monty Python (almost) put it: "We're not dead yet".

(Proud member, IWW, IU 620.)

Gawd, I love this forum