A rare pair

[Mike Huxley]

This lovely little pair just happened to drop onto my door mat this morning. I believe only about 1087 awards with the 1914 bar were awarded of the Saxe-Altenburg silver Duke Ernst medal. Combining this with the Mecklenburg "Friedrich Franz-Kreuz" has even narrowed the number who would have been awarded this pair.

Can anybody put a name to these???

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Mike, what a beautiful and colourful pair Kevin in Deva

[Stogieman]

Kind of scary how much of this stuff has passed through my hands at one time or another...... I can trace the geneology of owners for the last 2 years!!

[Guest Rick Research]

The Altenburg roll for that was published by the late Erhard Roth...

but this will take the Mecklenburg roll to compare with.

I don't know if "seeheldd" has the roll for it with his other Mecklenburg awards.

Lord knows, there can't be TWO of them with THIS odd a pair!!!

[Wild Card]

Super! Absolutely super!!

Congratulations

[Jacky]

I must admit that I haven't seen any bar like this one,

very colourfull and full of unknown medals to me!

Congratulations!

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Guest Rick Research]

For many many years the "noncombatant" and "war effort" awards were not highly regarded by Imperial collectors.

In my own case, I sold almost all of mine when I got into Soviet collecting 13 years ago. @#&%*!!!!

NOW, as rolls come out, and we get some idea of the real numbers awarded, no matter how "non exciting" these may SEEM compared to frontline bravery awards, the smaller the state, the much rarer these are.

That Altenburg medal with the wrap-around 1914 bar, for instance, was awarded only 1,091 times (1,086 as this combination, and 5 bars to a pre-war medal)

Rare as 1,091 is, SUBTRACT 381 awards to women and 1 lone one to an Austrian and already the Possible Suspects List is immediately knocked down to

709 German men.

A good number of those can be eliminated as military or ex-military personnel and people with other known awards, but I have never pursued it beyond this point because many hundreds of people about whom nothing will ever show up in awards records would be left. What once was thought impossible is now eventually... inevitable.

The key will be a Mecklenburg roll for the second cross which can be compared to the Altenburg one. On that happy day, I expect the name will LEAP off the page.

And based on what "seeheld" has shown us of the Mecklenburg rolls that DO exist... like Lippe-Detmold's rolls, there will be birth and other data included to add some LIFE back to the name.

The 20XXs/201Xs are going to be very very exciting years for Imperial research, with the team assembled HERE pursuing our inter-related goals of award rolls transcriptions and officer research.

[Mike Huxley]

Thank you gents. I had the feeling that this little gem MUST at some time have passed through your hands Stogie

Rick, when I first saw the bar I didn't realise how relatively few awards in this combination had been awarded, but after a little searching it started to dawn on me

Now when did you say those Mecklenburg rolls are going to be available.

[Stogieman]

Bumped. This is a piece that should be committed to memory.

[Gerd Becker]

Absolutely!!! Very nice pair, Mike.

[Mike Huxley]

Bumped. This is a piece that should be committed to memory.

Thanks Gerd and Stogie,

I would just love to know who this bar was owned by. It's got to be the rarest in my collection. Unfortunatly I just don't have the skills and knowledge of our Rick to be able to do any more .... I'm in HIS hands on this one.

[seeheld]

Hi friends,

just now I'm back from Singapore. Yes I have the FFK roll complete. 869 men's and 246 women received this decoration. I think it's very simple to find out the name. But I don't have this Altenburg list from Mr. Roth. According to this medalbar it's shut be a non Mecklenburg-Schwerin Citizen. I will check my list, because almost all awarded person's are Citizens from Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

[Mike Huxley]

Hi friends,

just now I'm back from Singapore. Yes I have the FFK roll complete. 869 men's and 246 women received this decoration. I think it's very simple to find out the name. But I don't have this Altenburg list from Mr. Roth. According to this medalbar it's shut be a non Mecklenburg-Schwerin Citizen. I will check my list, because almost all awarded person's are Citizens from Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

Thanks seeheld ..... It would be fantastic if you were able to come up with a name.

Cheers, Mike

[Guest Rick Research]

I've got Roth's list. There are a number of odd recipients at things like the Soldiers Theater in Lille, or hotel owners in Berlin, or medical personnel at war hospitals, but nobody on the Altenburg list who can be identified as a Mecklenburger, either.

So this person is a "foreigner" for BOTH awards.

[nesredep]

Hi

Nice pair.

Nesredep

[seeheld]

After a quick check I found out, one possibility:

Reinhold, Friedrich Mei?en, Kaufmann 31.07.1918

Later I will do a properly check.

Best regards

Seeheld

Edited September 17, 2007 by seeheld

[Mike Huxley]

After a quick check I found out, one possibility:

Reinhold, Friedrich Mei?en, Kaufmann 31.07.1918

Later I will do a proberly check.

Best regards

Seeheld

Ohhhhhhhh my!!!! what other forum has this depth of research ability amongst it's membership.

[Ulsterman]

After a quick check I found out, one possibility:

Reinhold, Friedrich Mei?en, Kaufmann 31.07.1918

Later I will do a properly check.

Best regards

Seeheld

Is that the painter?

[Scott Powell]

beautiful bar!

[Mike Huxley]

Oh by the way, it was very remiss of me not to post a scan of the reverse of this bar.

So here it is.

[Mike Huxley]

And a closer scan of the Obverse