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    Thanks Nick, that's very helpful.

    From what I've seen so far, all of the badges with opaque orange enamel have high numbers. Ones with translucent red enamel which show the pebbling underneath are always low (under 1000). I think this shows that we have early & late forms of these badges/pins.

    Here's my later form.



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    Here's what I believe to be the early form, probably from the late 1920's. These can also be found as a pinback, always with the prefix "A" before the number for some unknown reason.

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    Thanks Don,

    I have always thought the use of different styles of enamel was left up to the maker like we find with the party membership badges. Now after reading your thoughts on the subject that makes a lot more sense as you have found there is a definite division between the low and high numbered badges that corresponds with the type of enamel (opaque orange or translucent red) used I like that idea better. :beer:

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    Thought I'd post this rare image here, one being worn.....

    Thanks James,

    At the moment it is still a theory, but out of all of the red tranclucent ones I've seen so far, none have had more than 3 digits while the others are all higher.



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    Opaque orange for my example Ser. # 25453 :D .

    I note GES. GESCH. is positioned higher on mine and the other opaque examples shown than on the translucent examples.

    Different numeral fonts also.


    Edited by --dj--Joe
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    • 6 months later...
    • 1 year later...

    Here's An Ortsgruppe of TeNo Pins, to spur further Study & Discussion.

    (NOT the best Photos. I just scanned my Riker Box of TN Pins!)

    Don Scowen 'innocently' got me hooked on these TeNo Pins, when he 1st

    described the TRANSLUCENT vs. OPAQUE Types! Then, the hunt began &

    the quest to understand WHY? This Thread should be the "Home" for the

    discussion and learning curve about these TN Pins, I believe. There is so

    very much to discuss - about these simple, but 'elegant' TN Pins.

    So little is 'really' known about the different TeNo ? TN Pins, that I decided

    that in order to carefully study them - that I needed a LOT of Examples.

    (The TN Chapter 19 in "Police, Vol. 2" was a big help in the advancement

    of TN Pin knowledge.)

    My 'belief' is that there were several makers of both the Opaque and the

    Translucent types of both Nadel (Lapel Pin) and the Horizontal Catch Pin.

    In the following Images, you'll be able to see (I hope!) that there are some

    subtle differences in both Construction and in Appearance.

    I'm very EARLY in my 'study' of these TN Pins, and I do Not yet have a full

    analysis of what I have seen. But, I have noted some differences:

    1. in the Size of the Pins - & Size of the Center COG

    2. in the Width & Thickness of the long bar of the 'N'

    3. in the Length & Thickness of the TN Hammer

    4. in the Depth of the application of the Red Enamel

    5. in the Use of Different FONTS for the "N"

    6. in Where the COGS Strike Different Pin Landmarks

    7. in the Application of the Enamel - High vs. Low

    8. in the Finish Details

    9. in the Finding of a Large Square Bar Shape, before the Reverse Rondel

    10. in the Use of Periods (.) or NOT, after Gesch. Gesch.

    11. and MANY other Differences.

    Have a look, and see "IF" you also - see some Differences.

    I'll Post some higher Res. Photos of the TN Pins, by Type. ...........Txs, Dave/dblmed

    Edited by dblmed
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    TN Pins-Translucent-w-Nadel + Horizontal Catch Types

    Here is a grouping of TN Pins-Translucent-w-Nadel + 3 Horizontal Catch Types

    (Nadel is the familiar "Lapel Pin" Type.)

    Again one sees similarities as well as differences. (All pins are mine except for

    the Trans. Horizontal Example, which belongs to my friend Wagner (Serge). ....Txs, Dave/dblmed

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    TN Pins-Opaque-w-Nadel (Lapel Pins)

    The most commonly found Type (by Far) are the TN Pins-Opaque-w-Nadel (Lapel Pins)

    ? Why the different construction?

    ? Why the different types?

    ? LOTS of WHYS?

    The TN Pins-Opaque-w-Nadel offer the largest range of subtle differences, or

    it may be that because they are more commonly found - that one is able to

    pick up on those differences? .................Txs, Dave/dblmed

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    TN Translucent Nadel Pins - Noted Differences

    Let's look at the more "Rarely" found TRANSLUCENT TN NADEL Pins 1st,

    If you Start w the FRONT SIDE, I think that you will be surprised at the Number of noted Differences (and I haven't listed ALL that I have observed.) You'll note that the Variations are a 'mix and match' - with different Pins having similarities with others, and significant differences. This makes "Typing" them quite a challenge - a work in progress! ........Let's Focus on the FRONTS 1st - - - then I'll post the BACKS if there is interest in proceeding.

    When you Look at the Differences, it becomes apparent that More than one Maker was at work on producing the TN Pins. (Even the much less common <5,500 TN Honor Badges had at least 3 Makers. - 2 Named & 1 Unmaked) I'll grant that I am not an authority of TR Pin manufacturing techniques. Some variance could be seen within a specific maker. But, there are so many Absolutely Significant Variances, that one is lead to the supposition that many Makers were involved.

    Adding to this, I have only recently learned that his general model TN Pin was 'announced' in the TN Verordngsblatt in 1935, shortly after the announcement of the TN Enrenzeichen (TN Honor Badge) - and that these Pins had a span of issuance of 1935-1938. So, that meshes with my belief (but, factually unsupported), that some of the Manufacturers (or their SubContractors) of the CENTER ENAMEL Part of the TN Honor Badge, were also involved in TN Pin production. (But, they were Using a different DIE for the BACK of the Centers of the TN Honor Badge emblem, since they 'almost always' have that "A" - of yet unknown Significance.)

    LEGEND: I used A, B, C, D to Locate the 4 Axes (Shown on Pin # 1) for reference of Comments,

    so you know where on the Pin (A, B, C, D) I am referring to, in the below Photo.

    Pins # 1 - 7 are Shown at the Top, and then with # references to the Pins in the Comments below.

    A good TN Buddy told me that I got into measuring the thickness of "Angel's Wings" when it come to the study of TN Items, and perhaps that is the case. I find these TN Pins to be utterly beautiful as well as fascinating to study.

    Don Scowen is the 'Master' of Pins, IMO, and his work has encouraged me to look deeper at the TN Pins & study them. Hopefully Don will join in, and share his latest 'dicoveries' regarding these TN Pins!

    Also - Hopefully, you guys will see many things which I have missed & that will be educational!

    PLUS, You May Have Some Other TN Pin Types which I do NOT have Illustrated or Shown.

    ? Look at your TN Pins to see 'if' they FIT or 'if' they DIFFER, and join in. We can ALL Learn by the exchange of information!

    YES, This is a LOT of Information here, and it ONLY Applies to the TN Translucent Types! .....Txs, Dave/dblmed

    TN Translucent Nadel Pins - Noted Differences

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    TeNo Pin "FAKES / REPROS"

    Don't we ALL wish that we Could 100% Spot that Fake?

    I one found a WebLink for TeNo 'Repro' Pins, and followed it - but it turned

    out to be a dead Link. My conclusion is that 'Yes' someone was selling some

    Fake / Repros, but unfortunately I wasn't able to get one to examine.

    NO SMOOTH SHAFT / NADEL: I would shy away from Nadel Pins with a

    Smooth Shaft - the Shaft was meant to be Knurled, so a Smooth shaft is

    inconsistent. (However, others would argue that the Smooth shaft could be a

    'period replacement.' True.) But, for me, the Knurled Shaft is a better bet, when

    considering a TN Pin.

    NUMBERS: Personally, I shy away from 'Non-Numbered' Pins, as just my preference -

    but, 'Some' Non-Numbered TN Pins are going to be GOOD.

    (Since you can also find the Numbered ones, I'd buy those types, IMO.)

    Size of Numbers: At this point in my 'study' - I haven't found a concern for the SIZE

    of the Numbers used (since we see Number Size Variations on the TN Ehrenzeichens

    (Honor Badges.) By my Observation, the Translucent Types - more often have

    Larger Numbers, and a Lower Sequence Numbers. This may, or may Not, be

    significant - time and observation of LOTS of TN Translucent Pins will tell us whether

    this stands up, as a Criteria - or Not.

    Enamel Heat Test: One of my 'Distant Future' plans to 'test' the

    Enamel of TN Pins, by carefully inserting a HOT Needle into a small corner of the

    Enamel surface. A Collector once commented that he felt that the 'Enamel' on

    Fake Pins was a type of Plastic - so a HOT Needle should penetrate it. (The thought

    is that Fakers 'MAY NOT' take the time consuming step of Heat Enamelling?) I have

    NOT done this yet - but it's on my List of future tests to perform.

    CHEAP PRICE TN PIN: When the price is $25-$50 and is 'too good to be true' -

    it's a Red Flag to me. Yes, you sometimes get a real bargain, but on Dealer Sites -

    they KNOW the prices of these pins (so WHY a Low Price?) Examine the bargain

    priced ones very closely - as on http://www.Militaria321 and http://www.GunBroker.

    At this point in time, I also have more Questions than Answers!

    (But, by studying them, like we are doing, "Maybe" we'll find some Answers.) .... Dave/dblmed

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    Study of the REVERSE of the TN Nadel TRANSLUCENT Type

    REVERSE of the TN Nadel Translucents

    Let's Look at the REVERSE of the TN Nadel Translucents (in the Same Order) This

    Looooooong "Discussion" is ONLY for those who wish to pursue the 'Mysteries' of the

    magical TN Pins!

    Just like on the FRONTS, those BACK Variations start to pop up ... Right Away!

    GES. GESCH. - I Like to see the PERIOD (.) after the letters, as it mimics the

    Horizontal Catch TN Pin models, which I believe are authentic. Also, I like to see 'Crisp' Letters,

    and not the 'Blurr' seen on the No-Period Letters (Again, USUALLY!)

    (This 'Anomaly' IMO, is only seen on Pins @ 2, 5 & 7.)

    LOCATION of G. G. - I like to set it near to the top edge of the TN Pin

    (just like on the Horizontals.)

    ? SEEN on PINS #: 1, 3, 4 & 6

    ? NOT Seen on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7

    SERIAL NUMBER - It is believed to be factual, that the Serial Numbers were 'hand

    stamped' - just like on the TN Honor Badges. Thus, one would Expect to see some height /

    spacing Variations, (with Hand Stamping.)

    ? SEEN on PINS #: 1, 3, 4 & 6

    ? NOT Seen on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7

    DEPTH of Ser. Number - I prefer to see a Very Definite 'Hard Strike' vs. a 'Light

    Strike' as a preference. A TN-Mann 'whacked' these with a Jeweler's Hammer (Hopefully!)

    & there should be quite an indentation, IMO.

    ATTACHMENT RONDEL (Circle) - I prefer to see the Larger Size, rather than the Small Size.

    (Yes, Some exceptions, but Large is the one seen on "ID'd" TN pins, IMO.)

    ? LARGE RONDEL ? SEEN on PINS #: 1, 3, 4 & 6

    ? SMALL RONDEL ? SEEN on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7

    RED FLAG - is the Large SQUARE which is found at the base of Nadel / Long Pin

    - before it joins the securing Rondel.

    (IMO, This is a finding to seriously consider as to NOT Purchase that TN Pin).

    However, as in all of this Study, I've seen exceptions, like PIN 6 which has a

    small and 'fine' tapering SQ. Base, which I 'believe' is OK.

    ? "Red Flag" LG. Square is SEEN on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7

    KNURLING of Long Nadel / Needle - I prefer to find the Open & Raised Knurling

    Type, as seen on PIN # 3, when I have a choice.

    But, again there are exceptions. Smooth, is generally a "Red Flag" unless all else checks

    out to be OK. Very 'tight & smooth' Knurling is suspicious to me, IMO.

    COLOR of Reverse - These Pins had some type of a Nickel Plating / Finish - over the

    Cupric 'shell' - so, with years of Oxidation, we'd expect to see some signs of

    darkening. I like to see a slight 'Golden' tone to the Backs. (Personal Preference.)

    My PIN # 2 - is a REPRO, IMO, for these reasons:

    a. Back finish is speckled & compressed metal & is as 'Shiney' as NEW (Which it is!)

    b. Under Hi-Magnification, I see metal grains inside the '934' Numbers - leading me

    ....to conclude that it was CAST, with the Numbers already in place. NOT Stamped!

    c. I don't like the Ultra shallow Knurling of the Nadel.

    d. The FRONT is also 'too New' and too shiney.

    ??? So, WHY Did I But this TN Pin??? - in order to Study and to Learn from it.

    Are PINS # 5 & 7 also 'Fake?' - I hold them as 'suspicious' but not yet moved over

    into the "Fake" category.

    The Large Numbers & Low Numbers come out as Suspect, in this study of only

    7 TN Translucent Pins.

    However, I 'believe' that this configuration was also a correct one, for the 'Real'

    TN Pins. I've seen other Large Numbers & Low Numbers TN Pins which I feel are

    Legit. TN Pins & I would not hesitate to add them to my Collection.

    I 'believe' that PIN # 2 was copied from an Original TN Pin, by a clever "Faker" who

    had Direct access - to the REAL Pin - which 'Looked' like this!

    I 'offer' ALL of the Above (and my general Comments) as one who is a dedicated TN

    Collector and a TN Mini-Historian, and not as ANY "Authority" on PINS. Just my

    personal feelings, based upon Handling & Studying a large number of these TN Items.

    I may be "All WET" and "Totally Incorrect" regarding some of my 'Conclusions', but I

    am here to Share & to Learn! We NEED to start Somewhere? If I am wrong, I want to

    learn the Right Answers :)

    STUDY These, and Let's hear the Opinions of Other Collectors. .....Txs... Dave/dblmed

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