Christophe Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) The book is about caverliers of the major soviet awards its in Russian and some intresting pictures but they are of poor quality and the pictures of recpiants are onn shiny paper that is hard to scan Hers a scan from the book it also shos the ukazs for the Order of Victory's as well Order of VictoryAgain, if you can, I think a good scan of this page 23 would be of highest interest.Many thanks in advance.Cheers.Ch. Edited May 30, 2007 by Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Ok I did this with my camera so fingers crossed Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 Thanks for your efforts, Order of Victory.But, could you try one by one, with a better definition ? Many thanks in advance. Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Thanks for your efforts, Order of Victory.But, could you try one by one, with a better definition ? Many thanks in advance. Cheers.Ch.Your wish is my comand Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 AndOrder of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 Order of Victory,I appreciate. Many thanks. Will look at them. Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Gentlemen,at least the OKs - order booklets - of the "Victory" have a s/n. .Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Gentlemen,at least the OKs - order booklets - of the "Victory" have a s/n. .Best regards ChristianWhich is a VERY interesting observation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) I have two remarks / questions :1. Has anyone already seen another pic of such document ? I'm surprised these appear only in this book...2. Whose document is it ?I seems awarded to a Army General. So, could be the one of the Army General Antonov. Except if at the end of the War, some Marshals of the USSR were only Army Generals, but I doubt (to be checked)...If we look at the complete list of awardings of this Order, and if we take the following bets :* the docs and orders have been awarded very shortly after the Ukaz.* One order, one doc.* they have been awarded in following the sequence of the docs : doc SN 1, before doc SN 2, itself before doc SN 3, etc...Whose document is it ? It seems to confirm it may be Antonov's one. He has been awarded the Order "SN 10", and the doc is SN 11...In this case, Timoshenko would be SN 12 (awarded the same day).But the name visible on the doc (if I'm not wrong, because the quality doesn't help...) looks more like Timoshenko..Here is the complete list with dates : Soviets :* ZHUKOV, Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgi Konstantinovich. . Awarded twice, 10 April 1944 and 30 March 1945 * VASILEVSKY, Marshal of the Soviet Union Alexsander Michailovish. Awarded twice, 10 April 1944 and 19 April 1945 * STALIN, Joseph Vissarionovich. Awarded Twice, 29 July 1944 and 26 June 1945 * ROKOSSOVSKY, Marshal of the Soviet Union Konstantin Konstantinovich. 30 March 1945 * KONEV, Commander of Troops, 1st Ukrainian Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Ivan Stepanovich. Awarded 30 March 1945 * TOLBUKHIN, Commander of Troops, 3rd Ukrainian Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Fedor Ivanovich. Awarded 26 April 1945 * MALINOVSKY, Commander of Troops, 2nd Ukrainian Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Rodion Yakovlevich. Awarded 26 April 1945 * GOVOROV, Marshal of the Soviet Union Leonid Aleksandrovich. Awarded 31 May 1945 * TIMOSHENKO, Marshal of the Soviet Union Semyen Konstantinovich. Awarded 4 June 1945 * ANTONOV, Commander of General Staff of the Red Army, General of Army Aleksey Innokentevich. Awarded 4 June 1945 * MERETSKOV, Commander of 1st Far Eastern Front, Marshal of the Soviet Union Kirill Afanasevich. Awarded 8 September 1945 * BREZHNEV, Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet and General Secretary of the Communist Party Leonid Iiyich. Awarded 20 February 1978. Revoked in 1989. Foreigners :* EISENHOWER, General of the U.S. Army Dwight D. Awarded 5 June 1945 * MONTGOMERY, Field Marshal Bernard Law. Awarded 5 June 1945 * MICHAEL I, King of Romania. Awarded 6 July 1945 * ROLA-ZYMIERSKI, Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Army, General. Awarded 9 August 1945 * TITO, Commander of the Yugoslav People's Liberation Army, Marshal Josip Broz. Awarded 9 September 1945Ch. Edited May 31, 2007 by Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Gentlemen,it HAS to be Antonov, because all others had been already Marshals long before they got their "Victory". So, he got #11, but should have got #10 .Maybe a clerk in the office spoiled one of the "Victory"-OKs, threw it away and went on with the next number ?We know a wide range of cases of clercical mistakes .... .Just an idea, to explain the "wrong" number ....Best regards Christian Edited May 31, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Wow So if I am reading this right the Doc Number is 8 but the order number is 7, that expalins some of the discrepency Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Ilja,Very nice and interesting document!! Where is it coming from ?Thanks for posting it. Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Doc from Russian forum.Some photos of original order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) 2. Whose document is it ?The doc in post # 30 is Dwight Eisenhower's. Well, actually Duait Eisenkhauer's. The doc in post # 36 is Vasilevsky's.Auke Edited May 31, 2007 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 The doc in post # 30 is Dwight Eisenhower's. Well, actually Duait Eisenkhauer's. (...)AukeInteresting, because in this case (I did not think about foreign Army Generals ...) our theory about SN does not fit anymore. Eisenhower's one should be SN 13... Cheers.Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Most interesting . . . and challenging . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted June 2, 2007 Share Posted June 2, 2007 Interesting, because in this case (I did not think about foreign Army Generals ...) our theory about SN does not fit anymore. Eisenhower's one should be SN 13... Gentlemen,that seems now to be a fact, that the s/n. of the OKs doesn't match the "might-be" s/n. of the Victory .Maybe the clerk in the office took the Victory-OKs in an art of "random-principle" .Who got the Victory shown at the series of photographs ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 Ilja,Do we know where these pics are coming from (before the Russian Forum...) ? To whom is supposed to belong this Order ?I find it curious, as this order does not seem of the same level of quality as other "real" we have seen. In my opinion (maybe I am wrong), looks like a very good "museum copy" (let's call it like this... ).Better than the very good copy for sale at Collectrussia, but not good enough as a "real" one... Moreover, these pics look like having been taken in an auction...But, maybe am I ony paranoid... That's why it would be interesting to know to whom belonged this Order...Attached is a pic of the (very nice) one currently for sale at www.collectrussia.comCheers.Ch.Pic : Collectrussia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 Other view of the same "repro".Cheers.Ch.Pic : Collectrussia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 A real one 'unissued" from the Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow.This similar view to some posted by Ilja allows comparison. The assembly of the different parts does not seem of the same quality in the one from the Russian Forum. The screwplate looks also "curious"...Ch.Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share Posted June 2, 2007 Montgomery's one from the Imperial War Museum in London.Ch.Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 A real one 'unissued" from the Central Armed Forces Museum in Moscow.This similar view to some posted by Ilja allows comparison. The assembly of the different parts does not seem of the same quality in the one from the Russian Forum. The screwplate looks also "curious"...Ch.Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR CollectionDear Christophe,I assume, that's a mere "copy" - just look at the quality .According to literature, no "unissued" Victories do exist.Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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