Bavarian Order

[dante]

Welcome your thoughts on this, also numbers awarded and makers name, as ever many thanks, Paul

Sword blade has "GH 900" and bottom arm has "GH 950"

[dante]

Welcome your thoughts on this, also numbers awarded and makers name, as ever many thanks, Paul

Sword blade has "GH 900" and bottom arm has "GH 950"

2

[dante]

2

3

[dante]

3

4

[Noor]

Its look stunning!

[Bernd D]

Welcome your thoughts on this, also numbers awarded and makers name, as ever many thanks, Paul

Sword blade has "GH 900" and bottom arm has "GH 950"

It is a MVO 4th class with swords, silver gilt, by Hemmerle. Quite common.

Bernd

[W McSwiggan]

Unless the colors are not true - I believe the gold finish makes this a MVO3X.

[Guest Rick Research]

I'm not sure, but I believe that makes it an MVO4X that has been fraudulently gilded to make it a mock-MVO3X.

[Josef Rietveld]

I'm not sure, but I believe that makes it an MVO4X that has been fraudulently gilded to make it a mock-MVO3X.

That is true. unfortunately somebody tried to upgrade

haynau

[dante]

That is true. unfortunately somebody tried to upgrade

haynau

Thanks guys, purchased it as a 4th class, so no deceit by the vendor, looks nice though

[Gaffken]

So, ok--I'll go ahead and jump in with my typical dumb-question-of-the-thread intervention, but how exactly are a 3rd and 4th class MVO differentiated from each other then? The examples I've seen look almost identical in detail, except for the fact that one is silver, while the other is gold; is the latter only produced in real gold (ie, not gilt) perhaps?

Ever clueless but curious,

Gaffken

[Franken75]

So, ok--I'll go ahead and jump in with my typical dumb-question-of-the-thread intervention, but how exactly are a 3rd and 4th class MVO differentiated from each other then? The examples I've seen look almost identical in detail, except for the fact that one is silver, while the other is gold; is the latter only produced in real gold (ie, not gilt) perhaps?

Ever clueless but curious,

Gaffken

The third class MVO with swords was produced until 1917 in pure gold and after in silver but gildet(I hope this is the word for "vergoldet") The examples silver gildet are made in the same way as these ones made of pure gold. The way of producing was more complicated than the production of MVO 4. Class(and there are some big differences between). The Order shown here is without any doubt an MVO 4.Class which was gildet some short time ago to reach an higher price.

Best Regards

[Wild Card]

Hi Gaffken,

I think that you have the basic principle in that 3rd class is gold and 4th class is silver and aside from that, they are identical; but it may not end there. Since around 1916 virtually every gold Imperial German award (from merit medals to PLM?s) went from gold to gold plate, are we to assume that these third class pieces are exempt; and that all legitimate examples are in gold only? If not, how would proper gold plated pieces be marked?

Can anyone clarify this?

Many thanks,

Wild Card

[dante]

Hi Gaffken,

I think that you have the basic principle in that 3rd class is gold and 4th class is silver and aside from that, they are identical; but it may not end there. Since around 1916 virtually every gold Imperial German award (from merit medals to PLM?s) went from gold to gold plate, are we to assume that these third class pieces are exempt; and that all legitimate examples are in gold only? If not, how would proper gold plated pieces be marked?

Can anyone clarify this?

Many thanks,

Wild Card

Guys, no deceit was undertaken, It was sold and purchased as a 4th Class, Paul

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Wildcard:

I believe that what Gaffken is alluding to is the fact that there are indeed genuine Bavarian MVO 3rd Class w/swords gilt badges that exist. However, the piece in the photos posted here is a 4th Class w/swords which has been gilded and that this is evident because of the method by which it was manufactured. Genuine gilt MVO 3rd badges were made/constructed differently. This difference is a bit of a "guarded" secret for Bavarian collectors. Perhaps the new book coming out soon from Germany about this Order will reveal all.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Stogieman]

There are silver gilt BMVO3... they will also be marked for (appropriate) silver content. Also, 3. Kl. has seperately applied flames..

[militaria0815]

There are silver gilt BMVO3... they will also be marked for (appropriate) silver content. Also, 3. Kl. has seperately applied flames..

And they are hollow made.

[Gaffken]

Guys--many thanks, as always. I've been trying to decipher the obvious (visible) distinctions between the 3rd and 4th classes for some years now, but from what you all indicate, it now seems that telling a true 3rd class from a fake may require either really great & detailed scans, or having to hold the item in your very hands (sometimes not so easy to accomplish!).

Seems like a very tough nut to crack...