Stogieman Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 OK, who's got them? Claudio's thread on his new BMVO4 Bar made me reminisce over all the SHRK bars that floated through. Still one of my favorites and I still know where it lives!
Claudio Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 And I know where this one is...mmmhh.... let me guess! Here it is! I still like it very much!!!!Research of Mr. Rick Lundstr?m*09.01.1883 Kurt Oertmann was born in Wurzen, Saxony. ca. 1903 Joined the army. He served his entire career with the Saxon Infantry regiment no. 10218.08.1903 Leutnantca. 1910 Received Bavarian Military Merit Order, Fourth Class, Peacetime ribbon, while on detached service as Cadet Instructor with the Royal Saxon Corps of Cadets09.08.1912 Oberleutnantca. 1914 Serving as Adjutant I Korps, Infantry Regiment no. 10231.10.1914 Albert Order, Knight?s Cross, 2nd Class with Swords28.11.1914 Hauptmann05.02.1916 Bavarian Military Merit Order, 4th Class with Swords20.05.1916 Albert Order, Knight?s Cross, 1st Class with Swords24.08.1917 Albert Order, Crown to The Knight?s Cross, 1st with Swords07.05.1918 Military Order of Saint Henry, Knight?s CrossSt. Henry Citation: Oertmann has distinguished himself again at the Battle of Armentieres, where the IR 102 was attached to the 32nd Infantry Division (09.04.1918). Without caring for his own safety, he led his battalion several times in assaults on the enemy lines. His leadership and courage had great influence on the spirit of his men.Serving as Hauptmann/Commanding II Korps, Infantry Regiment no. 102ca. 1920 Demobilized from the Imperial ArmyListed in 1939 as Commander, Wehrmeldeamt Bitterfeld, Saxony, with the rank of Major z.D., seniority date of 1 June, 1932.Ciao,Claudio
Scott Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 That's a killer bar. How is the medal attached - it looks loose.Scott
Bernd D Posted June 28, 2007 Posted June 28, 2007 Claudio,the name is Kurt Oertzmann. He got the MVO 4 on 20. Sep 1910.Bernd
Claudio Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 (edited) @ Scott: Yes, the St. Heinrich Order is loose, but it's in very good conditions without any enamel damage, very rare for such an order with delicates enameled parts, especially like the crowns and the medallion (Saxon Crest). @ Bernd: What's your source of information? Do you have any other details to share? Thanks in advance for your most appreciated assistance! Herewith I am posting another medal bar, a late WWII Godet medal bar (see unuusual fabric - light blue instead of grey - on the reverse). Our Rick L. researched the likely wearer of this bar and came up with a name. Description of the medals: ? Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1914 (OEK 1909) ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Kriegverdienstkreuz 2. Kl. ohne Schwerter (OEK 3836) ? Sachsen-K?nigreich, Ritterkreuz St. Heinrich-Orden (OEK 2088) ? Sachsen-K?nigreich, Zivildienstorden RK 2. Klasse mit Schwertern (OEK 2155) ? Sachsen-K?nigreich, Albrechtsorden 2. Kl. mit Schwertern (OEK 2212) ? S?chsiche Herzogt?mer ab 1826, RK 2. Klasse mit Schwertern (OEK 2478) ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer (OEK 3803) ? ?sterreich 1. Republik, 1. WK Erinnerungsmedaille ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Luftschutz-Ehrenzeichen, 2. Stufe (OEK 3509) ? Deutsches Reich 1933-45, Deutsches Schutzwall-Ehrenzeichen, 1939 (OEK 3520) ? Ungarn, 1. WK Erinnerungsmedaille Research of Mr. Richard Lundstr?m: Adalbert Flaccus born 24 December 1880 in Alterwald, Rheinprovinz. Also in Saxon J?ger Bataillon 12 (last KNOWN rank Lt dR 23.1.09 W), civil occupation Diplom Ingenieur (that Westwall.....). SA3bX 19.10.15 as Lt dR in JB 12 SEHO-R2X 20.5.16 as Oberlt dR in JB 12. SV3bX 24.12.16 (a nice birthday present!) as Oberlt dR in JB12 StHO 29.4.17 as Oberlt dR and a company commander in JB 12 on the Macedonian front His St. Henry was earned amidst Turkish and Bulgarian troops, so I am surprised there is no Bulgarian WW1 Commemorative Medal. It is possible that this group was NOT his, but I'm at least 80% sure it was. Enjoy the pictures... Ciao, Claudio Edited January 27, 2019 by Claudio
Claudius Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 That hurts....that really hurts. Seeing all these St. Henry's on bars....Very nice and my compliments.
Glenn J Posted June 29, 2007 Posted June 29, 2007 Claudio,Flaccus was promoted to Oberleutnant der Reserve on 6.8.15. There is no promotion gazetted to Hauptmann d.R. by December 1918 but he presumably left as a char. Hauptmann d.R. a.D.RegardsGlenn
WNickel Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 Hi,here is an unnamed saxon bar - no chance to find out the wearer...
WNickel Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 ...and here a typical bar of an Oberstleutnant.A question about it: What is the important different to other bar's with SaH 3, SaA 3a mK+x, SaV 3a x and the red eagle to find out the wearer????
Deruelle Posted June 30, 2007 Posted June 30, 2007 Hi Werner, Beautiful medal bars. For your post 12, the owner may belonged to I.R. Nr. 133. There are not so many young officer with Saxon trio and Saxe Meiningen cross who survived the war. Christophe
Claudius Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 Agreed! Wonderful bars. Earlier I meant that it hurt not to have them in person to examine. No different with these last two submissions. Nice ones. Any other beauties WNickel, (perhaps from other states?)
Guest Rick Research Posted July 2, 2007 Posted July 2, 2007 Werner-- you're right about the StH-R/SMK bar at the moment. I have 109 Saint Henry Knights noted who got the SMK, but have not checked all of those for who had the full "Saxon trio." The casualties, Reichsheer-Wehrmacht officers, and Hauptleute up can be deducted (-58 still leaves 51 Lieutenants) but the key there may be that it is a ZINKY SMK... but I have yet to determine when they went over from the nice bronze ones to the zink model. Too bad about that SV3aX. Maybe we can find you the right one.
Guest Rick Research Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Claudio: Glenn found the Dienstaltersliste B of 1 May 1940:Now that I have this wartime x.D. Liste, I will type it out and try to figure out who ALL the "invisible" fossilzied in ranks guys were. I have my own Wehrmacht 18 bar whose original owner may be among them...
Claudio Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Many thanks to Glenn and to you, dear Rick I am going to add this info on my file... ;-)Ciao,Claudio
Guest Rick Research Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Research Gnomes Never Forget. Now that the Meiningen Rolls have been transcribed and published I actually AM going to be able to ID Werner's bar at some point when the Research Gnome Collective gets Saxony better organized.Where IS Werner, BTW? Alien abductee? :speechless1:
Guest Rick Research Posted November 5, 2008 Posted November 5, 2008 That's another Some Day Soon one. Haven't got Saxony "organized" yet with focus on Prussia.
Guest Rick Research Posted November 13, 2008 Posted November 13, 2008 :speechless: Claudio-- this started so far back... I forgot that there are more details from the late Erhard Roth's work on Saxon officerss from Hauptleute up that can be added--Oertmann did indeed join in 1903--F?hnrich 23.10.03Leutnant on 04.08.04 vorpatentiert to 18.08.03aD 31.03.20His pre-war BMV4 was gazetted 22.10.10-- so there's an average pre-war time delay between actual "foreign" bestowal and when approval was printed.
Claudio Posted November 13, 2008 Posted November 13, 2008 Wow! You have quite a good memory... like an elephant... (we say in Italian)... you quite have all the interesting bars memorized in your visual brain! Me too, when I like a bar I saw on some catalogue years ago, I quite never forget it! The same memory I have for good looking girls (only the good looking, I am afraid)... Thanks for updating my medal bar with very interesting information that I will save in my "private" archives... Ciao,Claudio
Guest Rick Research Posted November 13, 2008 Posted November 13, 2008 I'm typing out the 1 May 1940 zD officers trying to figure out who they all were and WHY they were zD and not (E) so this has joggled my old memory. So far, Oertmann is the only IDENTIFIABLE Wehrmacht zD officer whose medal bar I've ever actually held in my paws.
WNickel Posted November 16, 2008 Posted November 16, 2008 Research Gnomes Never Forget. Now that the Meiningen Rolls have been transcribed and published I actually AM going to be able to ID Werner's bar at some point when the Research Gnome Collective gets Saxony better organized.Where IS Werner, BTW? Alien abductee? Hi Rick,do you mean Otto von K?nig.... :rolleyes:
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now