Imperial Russia A Different Kind of Full Cavalier

[slava1stclass]

To all:

While not my area of expertise, this is nonetheless one sharp Full Cavalier of an earlier generation. Praporshchik I. D. Podolyakin became a Full Cavalier of all four classes of the Saint George Cross for Bravery during World War I.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

To all:

Sergeant Aleksey Strakhov, 16th East Siberian Rifle Regiment. Won all four classes during the China campaigns in World War I.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Paul R]

Were these men allowed to wear their medals once the Communist Regime gained power?

[slava1stclass]

Were these men allowed to wear their medals once the Communist Regime gained power?

PaulR,

Excellent question. The answer is yes. One must consider, however, that 23 years had passed from the end of World War I to the start of the Great Patriotic War. Throw in Stalin's purges of the late 1930s and it is amazing that some of these guys were still aound.

Among them was Full Cavalier of all four classes of the Saint George Cross for Bravery, Colonel General K. P. Trubnikov. Trubnikov earned his as an enlisted man in World War I. Seen here in his M1945 Victory Parade dress uniform, note that in addition to his Saint George Crosses, he also wears at least three other imperial medals in the same row.

As Rick L. is fond of saying, the proof is in the picture. Hope this helps.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Daniel Krause]

great pic!!!!!!!!

here my small contribution. General Sacher Wydrigan wearing 3 George Crosses and all 4 George medals!

Best regards

Daniel

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting question, and interesting answer. I suspect these men and their medals weren't very popular in the years immediately following the revolution, even for those who joined the Red Army. (As far as those who were Whites, . . . well here's a little bullet for you.) Surely, by the end of the GPW, these old Tsarist medals became more public, crawled out of teh closet, as the old wounds had healed with the victory. Stalin had also led the institution of a range of medals named after old feudal Tsarist heroes (Suvorov, Ushakov, etc.) and even the reincarnation of the cross of St. George as the Order of Glory. I wish we knew more about this change in policy and attitudes over time toward the medals of the old r?gime.

[Christophe]

PaulR,

Excellent question. The answer is yes. One must consider, however, that 23 years had passed from the end of World War I to the start of the Great Patriotic War. Throw in Stalin's purges of the late 1930s and it is amazing that some of these guys were still aound.

Among them was Full Cavalier of all four classes of the Saint George Cross for Bravery, Colonel General K. P. Trubnikov. Trubnikov earned his as an enlisted man in World War I. Seen here in his M1945 Victory Parade dress uniform, note that in addition to his Saint George Crosses, he also wears at least three other imperial medals in the same row.

As Rick L. is fond of saying, the proof is in the picture. Hope this helps.

Regards,

slava1stclass

You can find a better pic of Trubnikov, here, in post #754 :

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3144...ikov&st=740

Cheers.

Ch.

[Paul R]

Amazing photos! Thank you all for the clarification. One thing that I have noticed is that I do not see any photos of men who were enlisted in BOTH WW1 and WW2. Would that not be the most amazing group! Someone who was a Cavalier of both awards?? Not completely out of the realm of possibility! He could be in his early 40s!

Paul

[Ed_Haynes]

Amazing photos! Thank you all for the clarification. One thing that I have noticed is that I do not see any photos of men who were enlisted in BOTH WW1 and WW2. Would that not be the most amazing group! Someone who was a Cavalier of both awards?? Not completely out of the realm of possibility! He could be in his early 40s!

Paul

But I'd think if he'd been in WWI, he'd have become an officer by the GPW and, therefore, ineligible for the Glory. Though it is an interesting thought/dream.

[Paul R]

But I'd think if he'd been in WWI, he'd have become an officer by the GPW and, therefore, ineligible for the Glory. Though it is an interesting thought/dream.

Junior officers were eligible for it too, at least I thought they were.

[Ed_Haynes]

Junior officers were eligible for it too, at least I thought they were.

Yes (up to junior lieutenent), but could someone who was a Civil War veteran still have been a junior officer by 1943?

[slava1stclass]

Amazing photos! Thank you all for the clarification. One thing that I have noticed is that I do not see any photos of men who were enlisted in BOTH WW1 and WW2. Would that not be the most amazing group! Someone who was a Cavalier of both awards?? Not completely out of the realm of possibility! He could be in his early 40s!

Paul

PaulR,

My area of expertise is Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory. I need to check my references, however, concerning possible "double" Full Cavalier winners i.e., Saint George Cross for Bravery and the Order of Glory.

There are documented instances of Soviet enlisted men who were awarded the Saint George Cross during World War I who were later awarded the Order of Glory during the Great Patriotic War. I am aware of one such case wherein an enlisted man was awarded two classes of the Saint George Cross for Bravery and later was awarded two classes of the Order of Glory - a double double if you will.

Not all enlisted men of World War I who were Saint George Cross winners went on to become officers. The vast majority were demob'ed after that war only to be remob'ed during the Great Patriotic War. It's not as much of a dream as Ed suggests.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited July 27, 2007 by slava1stclass

[Ed_Haynes]

PaulR,

My area of expertise is Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory. I need to check my references, however, concerning possible "double" Full Cavalier winners i.e., Saint George Cross for Bravery and the Order of Glory.

There are documented instances of Soviet enlisted men who were awarded the Saint George Cross during World War I who were later awarded the Order of Glory during the Great Patriotic War. I am aware of one such case wherein an enlisted man was awarded two classes of the Saint George Cross for Bravery and later was awarded two classes of the Order of Glory - a double double if you will.

Not all enlisted men of World War I who were Saint George Cross winners went on to become officers. The vast majority were demob'ed after that war only to be remob'ed during the Great Patriotic War. It's not as much of a dream as Ed suggests.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Thanks, "slava". These are groups to dream of seeing (or even to get the names and have the research pulled, just to flesh out the tale).

Unfortunately, most of what we see are the "career" tyypes, and you right to remind us of the more invisible "short-timers".

I assume the wearing of the St. George Cross and Medal was an exception to a more general ban on wearing the orders? Although I still think you'd have to be pretty brave, or pretty stupid, to wear even these in the 1920s or 1930s?

[slava1stclass]

Thanks, "slava". These are groups to dream of seeing (or even to get the names and have the research pulled, just to flesh out the tale).

Unfortunately, most of what we see are the "career" tyypes, and you right to remind us of the more invisible "short-timers".

I assume the wearing of the St. George Cross and Medal was an exception to a more general ban on wearing the orders? Although I still think you'd have to be pretty brave, or pretty stupid, to wear even these in the 1920s or 1930s?

Ed,

You're welcome. I will provide the name and source citation for the double-double winner I mentioned above as well as any other cases I can verify after I have an opportunity to review my source material.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to comment on the official policies and/or general practice governing the wear of these decorations during the inter-war period. It is an area outside the scope of my personal expertise.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

To all:

Another shot of Sergeant Aleksey Strakhov (post # 2 above) seen at at his Kremlin guard post.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited July 27, 2007 by slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

To all:

One final unidentified Full Cavalier.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[pluribus]

Allmost a Full Cavalier... in Wehrmacht!!!

[Ed_Haynes]

Allmost a Full Cavalier... in Wehrmacht!!!

More likely these are some of the various "Cossack" decorations created by and for Nazi collaborators.

[pluribus]

More likely these are some of the various "Cossack" decorations created by and for Nazi collaborators.

Can you indicate which were these Cosscak awards created by the anti-soviet forces?

[Ed_Haynes]

Can you indicate which were these Cosscak awards created by the anti-soviet forces?

Not really caring much about Nazi awards, I'll have to look. I remember an article or two in JOMSA years ago. Let me see what I can find.

The same sorts of "Cossack" awards that are emerging today, in post-Soviet times.

[pluribus]

Not really caring much about Nazi awards, I'll have to look. I remember an article or two in JOMSA years ago. Let me see what I can find.

The same sorts of "Cossack" awards that are emerging today, in post-Soviet times.

Thank you.

The officer on the photo looks like a German, not a cossack. The uniform is also a common Wehrmacht uniform.

pluribus

[slava1stclass]

I am aware of one such case wherein an enlisted man was awarded two classes of the Saint George Cross for Bravery during World War I and later was awarded two classes of the Order of Glory during the Great Patriotic War - a double double if you will.

To all:

The Soviet soldier referenced above is S. T. Kuzin.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

To all:

Another nice portrait.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Ed_Haynes]

This is a VERY different sort, "slava"

[Igor Ostapenko]

To all:

One final unidentified Full Cavalier.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Брыков Андрей Алексеевич