My latest Bavarian M.V.O. Kreuz, I Class with Crown.

[Mike Huxley]

Well Mike, heres where we agree to disagree

I dont accept anything, at anybodys say-so, unless proof is given to what they base their "expert" opinions on.

Kevin in Deva.

P.S. anyway I am off to bed, little matters like this wont keep me from getting a good nights sleep.

No problem with what you say Kev ... we will agree to disagree.

Sleep well Kev.

Mike

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

While I have a first class cross with both crown and swords which I have always considered to be a bit off (and paid accordingly), I also have one with just the swords which just might be legitimate.

Please let me know your opinions; all are welcome.

Thank you in advance,

Wild Card

[sammlerchris1]

Can we have a picture of the backside, and a pic from the front in a view other angle?

[Yankee]

Dear Gentlemen

I was amazed to learn that there are copies being made of the MVK. Does this include those beautiful MVO's too? If there are as a novice Bavarian collector should I be concerned on the quality?

Hi Franken75

I hope you reconsider about not wanting to participate in any more posts. As a member I am very happy to learn from other members, never doubting their knowledge and insight. I'm sure there are others who feel the way I do. I hope you will continue to share your expertise.

Sincerely

Yankee

[Mike Huxley]

Hi Franken75

I hope you reconsider about not wanting to participate in any more posts. As a member I am very happy to learn from other members, never doubting their knowledge and insight. I'm sure there are others who feel the way I do. I hope you will continue to share your expertise.

My thoughts exactly Yankee. Please continue to contibute your knowledge Franken75 and welcome to the forum. Your input is valued.

Regards, Mike

[Alex K]

Dear Gentlemen

I was amazed to learn that there are copies being made of the MVK. Does this include those beautiful MVO's too? If there are as a novice Bavarian collector should I be concerned on the quality?

Hi Franken75

I hope you reconsider about not wanting to participate in any more posts. As a member I am very happy to learn from other members, never doubting their knowledge and insight. I'm sure there are others who feel the way I do. I hope you will continue to share your expertise.

Sincerely

Yankee

I'm suddenly extremely worried Does this mean that the attached is also a fake. made by Jacob Lesser (Or not) as the case may be, expert opinion is welcome

[Alex K]

hallmarks

[saschaw]

I'm suddenly extremely worried Does this mean that the attached is also a fake. made by Jacob Lesser (Or not) as the case may be, expert opinion is welcome

Well, this thread was mainly about the Milit?r-Verdienstkreuze (for NCOs and enlisted men), not about the Milit?r-Verdienstorden (which were for officers only). I don't think that there are faked 4th class MVOs, but the same thing is done as with the merit crosses: the are being upgraded to 3rd classes by being gilt. No problem either, as there are some specific thing and any "faked" 3rd class is easy to recognize - as easy as the "upgraded" merit crosses are ...

I have NO problem with you MVK 4th class. =)

[Alex K]

Thankyou saschaw, I will sleep soundly tonight. Forgive my ignorance, but is it just a case of having a lower grade gilded from silver to gold?

[saschaw]

Forgive my ignorance, but is it just a case of having a lower grade gilded from silver to gold?

No, fortunally not. There are some special features (I don't know them by heart) that cannot be faked, so it's actually useless to "fake" this.

[Mike Dwyer]

Mike Dwyer, your miniatur is in my humble opinion not a 1st but a gilt 3rd class, though a very nice mini medal bar.

Thanks, saschaw, I would very much agree with you! I'm a little confused though. Did the 3rd class come in only one finish, or was it also in bronze, silver, and gilt?

[saschaw]

Thanks, saschaw, I would very much agree with you! I'm a little confused though. Did the 3rd class come in only one finish, or was it also in bronze, silver, and gilt?

No no, actually they were in bronce, but it's just a mini, may be the wearer wanted it like this. The bar, anyway, does not match to the 1st class wich was given to highest NCOs, and any 1st class should have a enemaled centre. I don't want to claim it's a modern gilt one. This was presumably done in the 20s and 30s, on minis at least.

[Guest Rick Research]

"And I would bet that you will get not a single pic of any Bavarian medal here in this forum. Wait til next year and buy 'the Bible' "

An... interesting philosophy, that. WITHOLDING information until people PAY for it while deriding them as stupid until they do so.

Huh!

That is not what this website is about. That is not what this subforum is about. Certainly that is not what I am about, or have ever been about, in my own research and 40+ years of collecting.

Here we SHARE solid information for the betterment of our fellow collectors.

If anyone would like to SHARE their experience, please do so.

And the better the scans, the more the

Meanwhile, we'll all just collectively hold our breaths and...

"wait," eh?

[Stogieman]

I think everyone should take a deep breath here.......

Let's remain Gentlemen. The thread is under observation. Thanks.

PS: WC, I think yours looks pretty good from the front.

[Wild Card]

Thank you Stogie, I am hopeful.

sammlerchris1 - Here is a picture of the reverse. I am sorry, but I am not exactly sure as to what you mean by ?the front in a view other angle?. If you could be more specific, I will do my best to provide it.

Best wishes Gentlemen,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

I would like to present another mini example

[Wild Card]

... and here is a 3rd class cross in zink with swords and crown. These pieces are more striking in reality than pictures can convey. The bare metal of the crown contrasts so favorably with the dull gray zink.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I think everyone should calm down, get the clashes of ego out of the way.

Lets start with the medal posted.

One guy says its good... one says its bad.

Maybe both parties should put up and say WHY they think what they think?

Please.... WITHOUT polemic.

[militaria0815]

A doubtless original.

[Chris Boonzaier]

A very fine looking piece indeed. Superb quality. The Cypher is separately added?

[militaria0815]

A colonial type.

[sammlerchris1]

I am sorry, but I am not exactly sure as to what you mean by "the front in a view other angle".

I mean a picture like this one from haynau?s 1st class.

[Yankee]

Well, this thread was mainly about the Milit?r-Verdienstkreuze (for NCOs and enlisted men), not about the Milit?r-Verdienstorden (which were for officers only). I don't think that there are faked 4th class MVOs, but the same thing is done as with the merit crosses: the are being upgraded to 3rd classes by being gilt. No problem either, as there are some specific thing and any "faked" 3rd class is easy to recognize - as easy as the "upgraded" merit crosses are ...

I have NO problem with you MVK 4th class. =)

Saschaw thanks for making us aware, really disgusting somebody is taking 4th class examples and turning them into 3rd class, destroying the badge in the process. Can any member post an orginal gilded 3rd class piece so the newer collectors don't get burned.

[saschaw]

Hmm, last sentence in my poting should be "I have NO problem with you MVO 4th class. =)", of course.

I'm sure someone here has a gilt 3rd class, but I fear that there will come even more faked ones as the genui8ne pieces are damn rare. I wouldn't recognize the diffenrece, but the persons who made out the others, will see it. I don't know if they'll post anymore, but I hope so ...

[Yankee]

Hmm, last sentence in my poting should be "I have NO problem with you MVO 4th class. =)", of course.

I'm sure someone here has a gilt 3rd class, but I fear that there will come even more faked ones as the genui8ne pieces are damn rare. I wouldn't recognize the diffenrece, but the persons who made out the others, will see it. I don't know if they'll post anymore, but I hope so ...

Ahhh your " last sentence in my posting " was for Alex K. I am sure he is pleased. Good collecting

Sincerely

Yankee