Lübeck Got Lübeck

[David M]

Hello Marcin,

Very nice medal bar and lovely to see that HOHX next towards the L?beck Hanseatic cross.

Altough the combintation might be to thin to identify this one, a crossmatching when the L?beck roll is ready againts the HOHX roll could verify already a few candidates. Others more knowledgable should be able to say more on this combo.

Indeed as David does say, we will publish a few statistics in order to let you guys know how it does go.

Cordial greetings,

Well at the other hand, it is just as "easy" as a normall research, as more and more rolls are available: you should first check for possible candidates in the HHOX and L?beck and then look for the ones left on other published rolls. Everytime you find one, you know it cannot be your guy because he only got a HHOX and a L?H. It is a bit more timeconsuming, but actually it is just working the other way around

[David M]

Bezeichnung:

Marine-Generalarztes a.D. Dr. Theodor Hansen

I dont know if these kind of guys are in the book on the Wilhelms-Akademie aswell, which list bio's of militairy doctors. By the way, does the back of the bar have a marine backing?

Edited September 14, 2007 by David M

[Claudio]

@ David:

Here's the back: it's not a typical navy blue or black backing but this belonged 100% to the above-mentioned German Imperial navy. It came with an album of invites, postcards and my brother and I have a whole lot of pictures about the ship and its trips in the far east (see thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2297...mp;#entry19284).

Ciao,

Claudio

[Komtur]

I dont know if these kind of guys are in the book on the Wilhelms-Akademie aswell, which list bio's of militairy doctors. By the way, does the back of the bar have a marine backing?

Couldn?t find this Hansen in the Stammliste der Kaiser Wilhelms-Akademie, but found him in the Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?ts-Offizierskorps 1906:

[Stijn David]

Hello,

I have picked a Photo of a very nice medalbar from another thread because it also does fit in here:

Thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21639

Cordial greetings,

[David M]

That is a wonderfull bar and very traceable, if I am not mistaking?

[Guest Rick Research]

Like Marcin's HHOX/L?H bar, maybe AFTER you guys have finished the L?beck Roll:

The HHOX roll is incomplete (though Daniel is working on THAT, too, in his spare spare time)

We only have the BMV4X published for Captains, not for Lieutenants

and this fellow was probably a Leutnant or Oberleutnant from the BZ3bX.

Now when you are done with L?beck, and we can compare that with the BZ3bX (surely there will not be many!) and THEN go look for a Hohenzollern after those two...

some day.

Every single roll that is finished not only tells us who COULD have a bar, but also serves to exclude other "suspects" who ccould NOT have received a bar. So if we find a BZ3bX and L?H holder who had a SA3bX... scratch that possible owner.

But right now, we do not have the COMBINED information to identify this bar, unless he turns up by pure chance and good luck.

[Claudius]

Here's my L?beck for this collection of medal bars. It's very nicely done. The EK2, L?beck and Hindenburg are all tied down. And with the Wurt. GMMM I'm hoping this is traceable. I would like to know who this gentleman was.

[Stijn David]

Hello Claudius,

Thank you for joining in, unfortunatly no picture is showing up ?

Cordial greetings,

[Claudius]

Hello Claudius,

Thank you for joining in, unfortunatly no picture is showing up ?

Cordial greetings,

Sorry. Computer issues with the photos...I will correct and re-send. I have to reformat them to be small enough to fit as an attachment.

[Claudius]

I think I have it this time. Front-

[Claudius]

and back-

[Guest Rick Research]

VERY preliminary matchs for the W GMVM and L?H would be almost exclusively from 4th Company/ Infantry Regiment 126, with the Hanseatic Crosses all gazetted in the Personal Nachrichten edition of 15.11.17--

Bauer, Max: L?H 15.11.17 as Sergeant 4./IR 126, gMVM 10.8.18 as Vzf 4./IR 126

Baumg?rtner, Wilhelm: L?H the same, gMVM 22.9.18 as Vzf 4./IR 126

Frech, Paul: L?H the same as Lt dR IR 126, gMVM 31.8.17 as Lt dR IR 126

Hamburger, Eugen: L?H the same as Lt dR IR 126, gMVM 21.2.16 as Lt dR in GR 123

Rauser, Christian: L?H the same as Uffz 4./126, gMVM 31.8.17 as Uffz 4./ IR 126

?? Vermehren, Oskar: L?H as no 1st name Vzw dR in UR 20 on 11.2.16 (so cannot confirm these are both to the same man), gMVM 21.11.16 as Lt dR Feld Flieger Abt 9

Because the NCOs may have gotten long service awards, I'd venture that it was more likely one of the reserve Leutnants. Daniel's work in W?rttemberg rolls may be able to eliminate several if they had any other known awards. A regimental history of IR 126 might also show if any of the 5 reecipients from 4th Company were ki9lledor died during the war.

These are from the Personal Nachrichten, not the actual L?beck rolls.

[Stijn David]

Hello,

As we are still not through all L?becks i can only add info on a few of the suspects for this time being.

* Frech Paul - awarded the L?beck Hanseatic cross on 15/09/1917 - Lt. - I.R. 126

* Hamburger Eugen - awarded the L?beck Hanseatic cross on 15/09/1917 - Lt. der R. - I.R. 126

The others need to be checked and confirmed when the L?H roll is complete

Cordial greetings + thanks for showing that lovely bar

[Claudius]

Thank you both for your research!

It's nice to narrow it down to a few gentlemen, and will be great when it can be eventually attributed to one individual. I might even be able to find other awards (1st class pin awards, i.e. EK1) that he earned.

I understand, for instance, that while the W GMVM USUALLY came after the EK1 award, it didn't always happen in that order, if at all.

[David M]

L?beck (L?H) Statistics so far:

Year number Procentual

1915 353 10,45

1916 1090 32,28

1917 1036 30,68

1918 772 22,86

1919 46 1,36

1920 34 1,01

1921 1 0,00

subtotal 3332 98,64

unkown 45 1,33

Total 3377 99,97

In this number 3377 we do find the following

Schutztruppe 7 0,21

Marine 232 6,87

Marineflieger 6 0,18

Flieger 21 0,62

Luftschiffer 7 0,21

Marineluftschiffer 2 0,06

Edited September 24, 2007 by David M

[Guest Rick Research]

How are you three dividing up the work? Not year by year?

Can you post a couple of examples of the unknown category from the roll?

Remember: we can help with naval officers, Bavarian and W?rttemberg regular officers (birth dates), aviation casualties, and Prussian officers killed or died during the war.

[David M]

Rick

The work is divided up alphabetically, as the rolls are alphabetically aswell. We are still not sure which extra info we should add, if at all. Should we require assistance, we will not hesitate to ask the help of our fellow forumites.

Thanks

David

Edited September 24, 2007 by David M

[Stijn David]

Hello,

As David did say, the roll is already writte in a book + listed alphabeticly => A, B, C, ..... towards the Z. We are working us through these letters. Then you become a total and only from this total we can then start to make statisctics (for example by yearn etc...)

Please allow me to guestimate also howmuch L?H are awarded during its awarding period. Here are the facts on wich my estimation are based:

* The roll does contain 432 pages

* Each page does contain 32 names

And now my guess => 432 X 32 = 13.824

According to me there where arround 13.824 L?H awarded, there can be a few more or a few less , this will become clear within a few months as the roll has been finished.

Cordial greetings,

[jaba1914]

L?beck (L?H) Statistics so far:

Marineflieger 6 0,18

Flieger 21 0,62

Luftschiffer 7 0,21

Marineluftschiffer 2 0,06

Hallo David,

have you the names of those people? Can you post it?

Thank

alex

Edited September 25, 2007 by jaba1914

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Hallo David,

have you the names of those people? Can you post it?

Thank

Hi Jaba

These names are offcoarse known towards us (the 3 persons working ont the transcription of the roll) at this moment. The info you ask is a bit to much at this point of time. Once the roll is published by us then you will have offcoarse the opportunity to get these names in the book. ;-)

Cordial greetings,

[Guest Rick Research]

13,XXX! that is GREAT to know, Stijn -- earlier guesstimates have always been that there were around 20,XXX!

So you "only" have 4,000 each to do!

I am still curious as to what the "unknown" category is-- are those entries that are illegible or ???? There SHOULD be many many many awards to civilians for war effort work---

so I wonder if what you have is ONE roll with ONLY military recipients ???

[David M]

No civilians yet, do have Krankentr?ger. Some of the unknown categorie is just unknown because there is no entry of the unit the officers belonged to.

[David M]

Next week, more scans of the L?beck rolls will be available for transcription, so the project is still going strong. In support of that, please keep your L?beck stuff coming

[Richarddwh]

My two bars. The five place bar came with the postcard that I hoped might indicate the recipient but I can't translate it well enough.