Hindenburg Cross Types

[turtle]

... and I also beat you on the Kriegsteilnehmer crosses:

Landjägermeister i.R. Friedrich Wilhelm Neubert was awarded his Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnehmer on 16.01.1935.

He was born in 1878, joined the army in 1898, served until 1908, joined the Gendarmerie, was called up during WWI from 1917 to 1918, then returned to police service, was retired in 1932 and recalled to police service from 1940 to 1945. He fought in China against the Boxer Rebellion during 1900/1901 and served in the Feldgendarmerie during 1917/1918. From late 1944 to early 1945 he helped to evacuate refugees from East Prussia.

Somehow his Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnhemer was later upgraded to the Frontkämpfer version, according to his Wehrpaß and Police Soldbuch.

[christerd]

Welcome to the forum turtle !

And nice to see more Ehrenkreuz Cert , I have got an earlier Fronkämpfer since last year but you still beat me

My earliest is now 27 October 1934 , Gastwirt Wilhelm Hulke Hannover , from FAR 19.

Witwen now earliest 22 jan 1935

Kriegsteilnehmer now 16 jan 1935

Latest is Ehrenkreuz für Eltern 20 July 1941

I think these documents for Ehrenkreuz is underrated , they can show a lot of interesting information and often signed by

some well known ....

Have a nice weekend everyone

Christer

[turtle]

I think these documents for Ehrenkreuz is underrated , they can show a lot of interesting information and often signed by

some well known ....

Many thanks!

I totally agree with you, their pecuniary value is quite low, but back in the times they must have meant something to the people applying for them, concerning the nearly 10Mio crosses (taking Frontkämpfer + Kriegsteilnehmer + Eltern + Witwen Crosses into account) applied for.

And, as you said, they can give you lots of interesting information. Those issued abroad are, in my opinion, the most interesting. I once saw one issued in Bogotá, the Capital Colombia.

[Schwyz]

Hi all and thanks for all the interesting replys.

Here are two interesting related items — the Urkunde and the envelope it was contained in —

Always interested in seeing the "extra" documents

Cheers,

Gary

[turtle]

Nice one!!! Those extra documents are always an interesting addition!!

Btw: Do you know this website? It´s in german only, put the picture material is quite awesome!!

http://www.weltkriegs-ehrenkreuz.de/

Have a look at the different citations:

http://www.weltkriegs-ehrenkreuz.de/papier/urkunden/

[Schwyz]

Vielen Dank! Turtle,

I was not aware of this site and would like to thank you for mentioning it — I now have it bookmarked.

Being in German will slow me down a bit but should help my language skills improve — our family is originally from the Rheinland but my 'German' is not what it should be, I'm sorry to admit.

Is there something else besides 'turtle' we can call you?

Gary

[turtle]

Gern geschehen!!

Call me Lambert, using first names is a good idea!!

[christerd]

Very interesting link Lambert

Often Imperial collectors hate the Ehrenkreuz because its a TR award , and TR collectors hate it because its a award for WW1

Its also quite interesting that the award itself often cost < 10 $ but the boxes and everything else unusual cost $$$$

Christer

[turtle]

Glad I could help!

You´re right, the awards and award documents are really cheap, but the boxes are really really expensive.

I think one can buy up to 10 crosses with accompanying award documents for the price of one box!!

[Troy Tempest]

Frontkämpfer Urkunde - 15.10.34 - Muskatier Robert Schulze, Calbe

[Troy Tempest]

Frontkämpfer Urkunde - 26.4.35 - Geschäftsführer Max Taubert, Glachau

[Troy Tempest]

Kreigsteilnehmer Urkunde - 26.10.35 - Landjägermeister i.R Ernst Reinhard, Beesenlaublingen

[Troy Tempest]

Kreigsteilnehmer Urkunde - 27.11.34 - Verwalter Georg Claus, Bremerhaven

[Troy Tempest]

Eltern Urkunde - 8.3.35 - Wilhelm Himmighofen II, Niederwallmenach

[Troy Tempest]

Witwen Urkunde - 1.11.39 - Frau Betti Horvath - Steinkellner, Linz-Donau

[Schwyz]

Hello all,

Thanks Lambert — I think much better to use first names.

Christer — yes, I believe the documents are very underrated — please keep this quiet and we'll be able to add more good ones to our collections before the rest wake up!

I also agree with you regarding the bias some collectors have when considering this award.

I have always taken the view that it was an award for honourable service and sacrifice while serving Imperial Germany. It was conceived before the Nazis were, regretfully handed the country. It just happened to be administered and awarded during the Nazi era. I have never thought of it as a Nazi award, but realize many do.

The humble German Honour Cross provides (to my mind) one of the most interesting AND economical items available to collectors in the field of Great War collectables, especially considering it is probably the most common medal ever issued for the Great War by any country. It is all the "extras" that I find particularly interesting and challenging.

There are …

— 3 different medals

— 4 different certificates

— 5 different ribbon widths and 2 types

— A multitude of Cases; Envelopes; Presentation Folders; Ribbon devices including enamel ones; Miniatures; Lapel Pins; Paper items; Kriegs Chroniks; Books

and Books — all that — not to mention well over 200 different manufacturers markings. Probably a lifetime quest.

I have assembled a reasonably good collection (I don't really collect manufacturer's marks) — but there are still many items I am on the lookout for.

Cheers,

Gar

[turtle]

You´re absolutely right!! The Ehrenkreuz is also a good and interesting item, considering the points mentioned by you, for younger collectors who have to carefully calculate with their pocket money.

[turtle]

A few more of mine:

This is quite a late example (for awards handed out in Germany before the Anschluss of Austria) issued to farmer Joseph Tolksdorf. He was born in 1884, served with the artillery 1904-1906 and in WWI from 1914 to 1918. He got the Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse and his last rank was Sergeant (german rank)

[turtle]

Karl Mattes served from 1915 to 1918 with the 2. Garde Regiment. He was awarded the Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse and the Hessische Tapferkeitsmedaille. He was promoted to Gefreiter

[turtle]

Pharmacist Ernst Maigatter was born in 1885, served from 1917 to 1918 got an Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse and was promoted to Sanitäts-Unteroffizier.

[turtle]

Bank clerk Johann Georg Rudolf was born in 1879, served 1899-1901 with an infantry regiment and from 1914 to 1918 with an engineer unit. He got the Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung II. Klasse and the Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse. He was promoted to Gefreiter.

A few more to follow soon .....

[turtle]

Forgot the picture!!

[Troy Tempest]

My cased RV. Pforzheim 21 (Reichsverband Arbeitsgemeinschaft Heinrich Vogt - Pforzheim)

Edited December 30, 2012 by Troy Tempest

[Laurence Strong]

This is an interesting thread.

Larry

[Schwyz]

Pharmacist Ernst Maigatter was born in 1885, served from 1917 to 1918 got an Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse and was promoted to Sanitäts-Unteroffizier.

Frequently, in Honour Cross certificates there are two holes punched into the left side of the certificate — does anyone know the meaning or why this was done?

Just wondering.

Gar