My two new medal bars

[Noor]

Hi everyone,

I got a week ago two new medal bars for my very small collection. Nothing interesting at all but again, I would like to share pictures and ask, am I correct to read them?

Also I got lots of very great info here on gmic last months and I like to ask from medal bars "gurus" (Rick, Ulsterman, Claudio, saschaw,Deruelle, HeikoGustard, Chris Boonzaier, Dave Danner, Motorhead, Ed Hayens and etc) from where, "greenhorn" like I am, can start studying regarding medal bars and imperial Germany awarding regulations? I had spent last months some money for a books, etc but i like to start much more organised. Can you guys recommend some books or web based resources? I had studyed here almost every threat about medal bars and ribbon bars but like I said, I like to start built up my knowledge step by step from 0.

I would be very greatfull if you can give me some advise! If someone have list of books and materials, what I need to buy for a starting, please send me a pm.

Ok, here is my medal bars:

First one is very strange, probably home made (look at this ribbons how they are wrapped in there ) medal bar. Is it Bavaria (because the Bavaria LS medal) or the Prussian (I know that the EK2 is main award in the Germany and also is there the War merit Cross)? Any toughts would be nice

Next one is nice one, what I like much more! Am I right: Its definetly Saxony NCO, who owned that bar. Because the FAM is silver (hard to understand on scan), he was NCO already during the IWW. Also he was on the front line because EK2 and FAM is bravery awards and Hindi is with swords. He served before the war already because the 15 years Saxony Long Service Cross (double years for a war period until 1920s when Germany army desarmed?). And he was still active civil service during the TR early period because 25 years Faithfull Service Cross. He was probably wounded because there is not any another NCO awards?

Please help me with "medal bar readings" (and sorry about English mistakes when here is but I will learn this "weird" language as well all the time ).

Thank you very much who can find time for answer!

Noor

Edited January 9, 2008 by Noor

[Scott Powell]

as far as the first one, i remember it being discussed,and the consenus was the ribbons are either new,or not period at the very least. i was also uncomfortable with the way the ribbons were wrapped on the bar.

have you held the ribbons under a black light?

Edited January 9, 2008 by Scott Powell

[joe campbell]

i, too, am uncomfortable with the ribbons on each of them.

also, the EK on the first bar is on backwards.

joe

[Ed_Haynes]

As a real outsider, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with either bar. For reasons as mentioned above.

Sorry.

[Ulsterman]

Well, I'd like to see the backs, but both ostensibly look ok. As everyone pointed out though-they do look very new, too new in my opinion (well, the top one anyway).

There are actually lots of ugly homemade bars like this out there in pictures-especially of SA men I notice (cheapskates). While it's odd for the Bavarian not to get the common BMVKx3, award rolls do show that this happened about 35-40% of the time. Indeed, some poor men were in the entire war and got nothing but a LS medal.

The backwards EK was common-both as a mistake (Rick even has Generals pictures of this) and perhaps as a "I ain't no stinken Prussian" statement.

Hessentahl and Schreiber (book) is the place to start , followed by Neal OConner's books...and then read every post here in the imperial sections going back to the beginning of time and all will be well.

The Saxon one is odd for a bronze FA medal (private) given the LS medal, as one would expect at least an Unterofficers' rank based upon 6 years service alone (double time in war) but this did happen...in those days there really were career privates, or people who made it to Unterofficer, did something stupid/naughty and went back down again. Or the man only earned one FA and did so at a lower rank.

[Paul C]

Noor, The one website I can recommend is a site that was done by Dave Danner a fellow forum member. Here is the link:

http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria.html

In regards to book about Imperial medal bars and ribbon bars there just does not seem to be any available. Also I can not find a reference for German orders that is written in English. I would, as you have done, read as much as you can on this forum. Also before you by anything post a pic here and ask for opinions.

[Noor]

Hi,

Regarding those two medal bars I think second one is still good. Maybe this scan shows ribbons more shiney then its looks on hand. Second one - I dont like those ribbons and especially wrapping as well. But same time, who ever put it together.... why to do something like that for a sale then sell those common awards separatly and get more money then I paid for a set? It was very reasonable price for that anyway! Thats the main reason why I got it.

Thanks for information and links! Dave Danner web page is one of my favorite a long time already! I think I have already basic info of awards, I know awarding criterias mainly (what is one of the basic things) and also I had last year when ever I can research different those basic links (gmic is my favorite because detail answers!).

Its bitty that there is no books about awarding regulations, etc. But same time I have this fun now, to research myself!

What I also like to know more is about the imperial Germany army structure and units. If someone knows some book, please let me know. Also how the dL and dR worked over the I WW period.

I will post some my new bars here tomorrow. One of them maybe can be named some moment!

Edited January 9, 2008 by Noor

[saschaw]

I actually like both bars but it's hard to be sure nowadays - and I wonder how I made it to a "guru" yet as I'm still hear to learn.

The Iron Cross on the first bar - which really looks weird but those homemade bars exist as we know - is a private purchase with a hollow core. When you show the avers, we'll realize it better ...

[Ulsterman]

I actually like both bars but it's hard to be sure nowadays - and I wonder how I made it to a "guru" yet as I'm still hear to learn.

The Iron Cross on the first bar - which really looks weird but those homemade bars exist as we know - is a private purchase with a hollow core. When you show the avers, we'll realize it better ...

Really???!! That's the most useful thing I have learned this year so far! (well, only 9 days to be sure...)

How can you tell a hollow core by sight? Please tell me/us.

I am agog!

[Deruelle]

Hello,

Interesting bars. It is possible to have a photo of the back please. I prefer the second bar.

Christophe

[saschaw]

Really???!! That's the most useful thing I have learned this year so far! (well, only 9 days to be sure...)

How can you tell a hollow core by sight? Please tell me/us.

Oh I'm not too sure anymore, but the design is the one I know. The other side should have a closed "4", not one that is open ... anyone get's what I mean ...

[Marcin L]

In my humble opinion both EK ribbons are fine. Why you do not like it?

[Noor]

Hi Christophe,

Here is some another scans (how different scanners can make so big difference )