Bavarian Pilot portrait - look

[Robert Noss]

The only portrait I got today on a local fleamarket ist that one:

First I thought it is Reichswehr, but when at home and looking closer to the uniform, I recognized that it is a Navy uniform.

He wears props on his shoulder-boards..

.. and the bavarian pilots badge..

The photo is dated 1916

When researching a bit about 1st WW Navy Pilots, I found out that there were Navy Pilot badges too, but this one is a regular bavarian Pilot's badge.

He is an NCO, I always thought that 1st WW pilots were officers, not as in WW 2, when many pilots were EMs and NCOs.

I think it is an interesting photo and maybe some people can add some more information on this one.

BTW - it was a 1 Euro buy.

Kind regards

Robert

[Mike Dwyer]

Robert,

I'm not anywhere near being an expert, so there are many others more qualified than I to speak on the matter, but I do not agree with you that he is Navy. If he was Navy his hat would only have the Reichskokarde, the Navy did not wear a state kokarde. He is an Offizierstellvertreter.

Edited February 10, 2008 by Mike Dwyer

[Chip]

...

Edited February 10, 2008 by Chip

[Chip]

Robert,

This is a stardard (Bavarian) pilot's badge as you have discovered. The man is an Offizierstellvertreter. There were NCO pilots in WWI with ranks as low as Unteroffizier.

By the way, I would be happy to triple your purchase price for this photo!

Chip

[Robert Noss]

Yes, I see.

I was misleaded by the shape of the shoulder-boards, which look like they are pointed.

But You are both right of course, he's just a regular bavarian pilot.

Thanks

Robert

[jaba1914]

Yes, I see.

I was misleaded by the shape of the shoulder-boards, which look like they are pointed.

But You are both right of course, he's just a regular bavarian pilot.

Thanks

Robert

Vary nice picture of an bavarian NCO with pilot badge, EK 1, EK 2, and bav. MVK.

congratulation.

[Guest Rick Research]

AAAGGGHHHHH! Too bad he did not sign his NAME !!!!

[Snoopy]

Congratulation, that's a really nice photo. I like it a lot. Conserning the navy pilot's badge. Have you seen my miniature of the Marine See flieger abzeichen that I have posted in this forum? I don't know how to make a link to my post, but it's called "Flieger abzeichen miniature".

Snoopy

Edited February 10, 2008 by Snoopy

[dwmosher]

Interestingly, the buttons on this Bavavarian pilot are Prussian (crown)vs. the proper lion motif.

Dave

[Chip]

Good eye Dave! Odd isn't it?

[Stogieman]

Not just a Bavarian Pilot Photo.... one of the best of the handful of images on this subject I've ever seen.....

[Steve K.]

It appears as if the crown of the badge is "cut-out" or pierced.

[Stogieman]

I don't think so... looks like the normal "shadow" effect from the two-piece badge..

[Steve K.]

Wishful thinking on my part!

[ccj]

Wishful thinking on my part!

I see it and I wonder why an NCO would have a Bavarian Pilot badge but a Prussian tunic. WHY? Is it possible for a Bavarian to wear a Prussian tunic or a Prussian to wear a Bavarian Pilot badge?

What does he Kokarde look to represent on his visor cap?

[Daniel Cole]

Maybe he's a Prussian with the wrong pilot's badge for some reason.

[Guest Rick Research]

Cockade looks Bavarian to me-- but the clincher is the way he is wearing his ribbons.

Despite his tunic buttons, he is wearing the Bavarian MMC ribbon in pride of place....

He's a Bavarian.

[ccj]

Cockade looks Bavarian to me-- but the clincher is the way he is wearing his ribbons.

Despite his tunic buttons, he is wearing the Bavarian MMC ribbon in pride of place....

He's a Bavarian.

Why the Prussian buttons? I just don't understand. The 1916 Bavarian tunic was to use the Prussian style button as on the 1915 tunic but I've never seen a 07/10 tunic for a Bavarian using Prussian buttons.

I agree, Bavarian ribbon over the Prussian plus the Bavarian Pilots Badge makes one conclude he was a Bavarian.