EK 1914 2-piece ribbon bar

[Peter J]

I've been having some problems lately accessing this great forum, here's one to celebrate my happy return

cheers

Peter

[Noor]

Very very nice!!

MvH,

Noor

[dond]

Where's the rest of the bar?

[Peter J]

This is it Don. Should I be concerned over the missing decorations one would expect?

cheers

Peter

[nesredep]

Very very nice!!

MvH,

Noor

Hello!

I agree.

All the best

Nesredep

[gregM]

That miniature early style spange is GREAT

[dond]

I would think there would be more to it....

[Ulsterman]

Hello!

I agree.

All the best

Nesredep

You agree to what?

Why isn't there an HKx? If the spange is real-there MUST be an HKx.

[Paul R]

Why isn't there an HKx? If the spange is real-there MUST be an HKx.

I agree!

Seriously, from everything I have learned from all of you, the absence of an HK would be a huge red flag. The ribbons look like they have been with the bar for a long time, as the wear and the oxidation present on both the ribbon and the support seem to match. Although, it looks like someone removed the ribbons, placed the device(s), then replaced them onto the bar?

[Peter J]

I think you guys have a valid point about the lack of other decorations and I don't really know what to think.

Paul, I don't think the bar has been tampered with. Although there are visible scratches on the top of the prongs, the surface underneath is intact. But if your assumption is correct i.e. matching ribbons to the bar, what would two EK-ribbons signify?

I have limited knowledge in WW1 decorations and statues, but like to add a reflection on this topic. I'm not grasping straws in order to make this piece legit, but would like to here your comments.

From what I understand, the Hohenzollern Knights Cross was a rarely awarded piece and even PLM awardees didn't always recieve it. This awardee of this HKC also recieved the 1939 clasp (early type). Let's for the sake of discussion assume he started WW2 as an HQ-officer and recieved the EK2 for leadership, but no more decorations after that. I don't know if regulations called for all decorations awarded to be worn, but contemporary pictures clearly illustrate the absense of i.g. the EK ribbon in the 2nd buttonhole. However there's a excerpt from the Uniformenmarkt, where the LDO emphasize the importance of not wearing all kinds of decorations in an attempt to enhence one's qualities. Perhaps this awardee was a snobb and didn't want his HKC associated with a common HC. Now please be gentle with me

cheers

Peter

[Ulsterman]

The Hohenzollern House Order was given for very,very brave and noteworthy feats to (mostly) junior officers. If this bar did not have the spange I'd say it's a pre-1935 piece and then show you a great photo from 1925 of a Hauptmann with this combo. Certainly the patina and construction look good, but the HKx was ubiquitous, easy to obtain (and cheap) and it should be there. Maybe the chap had a separate HKx bar next to his "original" bar and upon recall in 1940 wore them next to each other, but it's incorrect the way it is.

IF ITS ORIGINAL , the only way I can figure this happening is that its a jr. officers' bar that gets put into a box in 1919 or thereabouts and pulled out upon general remobilization in late 1939. Our ex. Lt. gets a bump to Hauptmann but being uninterested never got his HKx .....and LS medals are stopped for the duration.

Upon the fall of France he gets another EK2 for his trouble and viola- ..............

As Rick R's ribbon bar article demonstrates, odd things happened.

But, it's a stretch and personally, I doubt it. I don't like stretches. I think someone added the eagle spange.

[Peter J]

Thanks for the elaboration. I agree, who likes stretches, but I don't mind it in my collection As you can see, the wear is there .

cheers

Peter

[Stogieman]

I would tend to think someone added the '39 spange after the fact to "dress it up"... also, I don't really like the look of the spange itself. The head of the eagle is too poorly designed/shown which makes me question the authenticity of the spange itself... for examples of known original miniature spanges please see the Lundstr?m article on ribbon bars in the Imperial section of the forum.

So, you have a bar, probably original, to a guy who was KIA after received both grades of the 1914 EK and a Hohenzollern...... that somebody went and screwed with after the fact and ruined the bar.

[Stogieman]

The article may be found here:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?autocom=galler...q=sc&cat=23

Page five (5) under "device gallery" will show fake spanges and real ones.

[Peter J]

Hi Rick,

I appreciate your input. The device gallery is outstanding, but unfortunately there is only one 1st pattern for comparison. I noticed one major difference on my device, compared to other 2nd pattern devices I have i.e. the oakleaves are shallow instead of "bulky". It was hard to tell about the one in the gallery, perhaps mr L. elaborate . My device is die-struck and has remnants of silver. The height is 12.80mm and the 2nd pattern 11.09mm.

cheers

Peter

[Guest Rick Research]

All the pieces look fine BUT where is the REST of the ribbon bar?

I have seen a photo of an army general in Poland 1939 wearing a unique fashion statement 15mm 1914 EK2/HOH3X 2 ribbon bar as some sort of bizarre field worn personal style. Don't remember his name or where-- in over 40 years of reading-- I've seen that photo.

I suppose it is POSSIBLE that somebody might have decided to "under dress" this way, but more likely this is the remains of a longer bar.

[Peter J]

Thanks Rick Your guess is as good as mine.

cheers

Peter

[Stogieman]

For comparative purposes only... here's a 2X without the added spange

[Ulsterman]

...and here it is being worn (@ 1925):

[Stogieman]

NICE one Mate!