notned Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hello Gents,Just bought this wee set, and the seller tells me he has more buttonhole devices with this set, so am looking forward to its arrival in the post!Has a red felt backing , no label. and the ribbon bar has a black felt backing looks like it has been through a hard time, but some TLC will sort it out... Will post better pics when it arrives!Enjoy!RegardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensF. Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nice! Here is a complete set with the "Bew?hrungsabzeichen": Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) [Hi Jens,Nice stuff! Now what does 'Bewahrungsabzeichen' mean??? Just got the set this morning, the Hindenburg cross was an add on...so the original bar of the EKII and the Brunswick cross were mounted pre 1934! and the buttoniers are quite large! Also the ribbon bar has the smallest swords i have ever seen!Does anyone know much about these Brunswick crosses? like why and how they were awarded etc..Thanks for your help!CheersPaulquote name='JensF.' date='Oct 3 2005, 12:06 ' post='23099']Nice! Here is a complete set with the "Bew?hrungsabzeichen": Edited October 3, 2005 by notned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Paul and Jens,Nice sets! Of all of the Imperial Crosses, the Brunswick cross is my favorite.What is the badge on your Brunswick Cross indicate, Jens?RegardsPaul Edited October 3, 2005 by Paul Reck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hi Paul -I?ll take a shot at this and invite any of the more knowledgeable members to add to and/or correct my information.The Brunswick War Merit Cross was founded on 23 Oct. 1914 by Duke Ernst August. It was awarded for both combat and non-combat (authorized on 17 Nov. 1915) service. A first class (pinback) award was authorized on 20 March 1918 causing the originals to become known as 2nd class awards.The Bew?hrungsabzeichen, as I understand it, signifies two years of actual front line service; therefore, a ?proven? combatant; and again, as I understand it, this decoration may have been authorized as late as 18 Oct. 1918.It would seem that these War Merit Crosses were awarded to native Brunswickers, non-native Brunswickers who served in ?Brunswick? units and any others who's? service remotely had a Brunswick influence. In the scheme of things these decorations are considered roughly equivalent to The Prussian Iron Cross; but, of course are a lot rarer, and could be considered on a par with, say, the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross or the war merit crosses of several other states.I hope that this information is helpful and best wishes,Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensF. Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) There is not much to add. The "Bew?hrungsabzeichen" was awarded for two years continuing service at the front, so everyone who got it was a real frontfighter who distinguished himself for several deeds of bravery. It is a rare award and as you can see in the set this guy got himself a second badge for the buttonhole ribbons and a small one as ribbon device. I think he was very proud of it. My statistics say, that the Kriegsverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse 1914 from Braunschweig was awarded about 8000 times. Below is a picture of the KVK 1. Class: Edited October 3, 2005 by JensF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nice group,Paul. Another man hits the slippery slope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 In the scheme of things these decorations are considered roughly equivalent to The Prussian Iron Cross; but, of course are a lot rarer, and could be considered on a par with, say, the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross or the war merit crosses of several other states.On the question of rarity, Brunswick's KVK was much rarer than Oldenburg's Friedrich August Cross. Just to add a little context:At the time of the war's outbreak, the Duchy of Brunswick had a population of a little over 500,000 (it was 494,339 in 1910). It maintained one infantry regiment (Braunschweigisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr.92), one cavalry regiment (Braunschweigisches Husaren-Regiment Nr.17) and one artillery battery (5./Feld-Artillerie-Regiment von Scharnhorst (1. Hannoversches) Nr.10).Oldenburg, though a Grand Duchy, was just about the same size (its population in 1910 was 483,042, but Oldenburg had a higher growth rate, so it probably had passed Brunswick by 1914). Like Brunswick, its main military contribution was an infantry regiment (Oldenburgisches Infanterie-Regiment No.91) and a cavalry regiment (Oldenburgisches Dragoner-Regiment No.19), plus parts of two field artillery battalions (2. and 3./Ostfriesisches Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr.62). And being a maritime state, Oldenburg had a somewhat bigger contingent of its sons in the navy than Brunswick.Despite this rough parity in size, the difference in award numbers is striking. As Jens notes, there were approximately 8,000 awards of the KVK2 and an unknown (but considerably smaller) number of the Bew?hrungsabzeichen and of the KVK1. By contrast, there were about 62,800 awards of the Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class and 6,900 awards of the 1st Class (and an unknown number of "Vor dem Feinde" clasps to the FAK2). To give some idea of how prolific Oldenburg was with navy awards: in the February 1918 Navy Rank List, every Admiral had the Friedrich August Cross in both classes. Among Vice Admirals, 14 of 19 had both classes. Among Rear Admirals, 13 of 23 had both classes, and a 14th had just the 2nd class. Out of 113 Captains, 46 had both classes and 3 more had just the 2nd class. Brunswick's KVK was held by one Vice Admiral and 6 Captains. Down the ranks, the total numbers go down, but the ratios are similar. 25 Fregattenkapit?ne had one or both classes of the Friedrich August Cross, while only 2 had the KVK. For Korvettenkapit?ne, it was 77 to 5. And this is the February 1918 rank list. Over the next few months, doubtless many others received more awards. Given its late date of institution and the paucity of previous KVK awards, I wouldn't be surprised if no more than a handful of navy officers received the KVK 1st Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 Hi Gents,Thanks Paul! i'm pleased too!Thanks Wild card...for the info Also a thanks to Jens Bob, already hit the slope a while back....its getting more slippery by the day! Dave, its good to know that these were a bit rarer than the Freidrich August ones and many thanks for the excellent info! Might look for a Oldenburg one soon., i kinda like the all crosses look...and i seem to like trios.... oops... the slippery slope beckons.....I'm a goner! CheersPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 The Brunswick War Merit Cross was founded on 23 Oct. 1914 by Duke Ernst August. It was awarded for both combat and non-combat (authorized on 17 Nov. 1915) service. A first class (pinback) award was authorized on 20 March 1918 causing the originals to become known as 2nd class awards.The Bew?hrungsabzeichen, as I understand it, signifies two years of actual front line service; therefore, a ?proven? combatant; and again, as I understand it, this decoration may have been authorized as late as 18 Oct. 1918.Wild CardIf I could expand this a little bit....1. The receipient had to be a Brunswick native as of August 1, 1914 or if not a Brunswicker, an officer in one of its formations.2. He had to serve two years of "unbroken service" in the field. This was caveatted to permit up to two months of hospital and/or home leave during the period of qualification.3. The receipient had to have a record of good conduct (usually applied only to men in the ranks, being presumed for officers).All requirements were waived in the case of death.(Info obtained from http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...rungsabzeichen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 If I could expand this a little bit....1. The receipient had to be a Brunswick native as of August 1, 1914 or if not a Brunswicker, an officer in one of its formations.2. He had to serve two years of "unbroken service" in the field. This was caveatted to permit up to two months of hospital and/or home leave during the period of qualification.3. The receipient had to have a record of good conduct (usually applied only to men in the ranks, being presumed for officers).All requirements were waived in the case of death.(Info obtained from http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...rungsabzeichen)So this was basically an extended (I would call two years in the field extended) combat service medal.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hello Gents,More pics are here!could not get the close ups i wanted as the EKII has i funny look about the 'W' and the 1914 date...it looks like the stamper? didn't hit it hard enough and it moved slightly downwards and created a stepped impression, and its only on the bottom. Weird huh?The EK is held on with a Prym safety pin as the top suspender eyelet has been lost.( i am tempted to get a Jeweller to make me another to fix it up a bit, but i'll prolly leave it)As the reverse shows, the Hindenburg was an addittion and its soldered on! the minatures have fantastic detail, pity about the EK losing some the black paint..The ribbon Buttoniers are interesting, as they are the same width as the ribbons on the medal bar.all in all am pleased with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 Heres a better shot of the minatures with the ribbon bar See how tiny the swords are on the Ribbon bar! And the buttoniers, maybe i should open one up and use the ribbons,,,,Nah! leave em..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 This is a set to be proud of!!! I can see why so many people turn Imperial! There are so many possible combinations of medals. Very colorful!Best regardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JensF. Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Yep, and you can "read" the most medal bars much better than any Third Reich medal bars. Very nice set, complete with the ribbons, buttoniers and miniatures! Here is another medal-bar with the Braunschweig cross. This one is the really rare type with a two-ring attachment. This is only the second cross of that type I saw and in the "von Hessenthal" book is written, that this shall be the original type of cross which I can't believe because 99,9 % of all Braunschweig crosses have a "normal" one ring attachment. Strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted October 5, 2005 Author Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hi Jens,Now that IS a nice bar! so clean and crisp!Paul, Thanks for your kind words! RegardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 NIce Brunswick group. My contribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 A very nice Brunswick group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 The "long format" award document was used until about 1917, I think:[attachmentid=12532]This one was bestowed 28 August 1916 on Unteroffizier Friedrich Possiel of the 4th Company of the Prussian Guard Fusileer Regiment. These always bear rather cryptic award roll numbers at bottom left which MAY have something to do with running totals, but that remains unclear. The very busy Minister "Wolff" hand signed every one of these, becoming "von Wolff" for his troubles during the war.Another peculiarity is that some recipients apparently never got an award document for YEARS after being handed their cross in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I had one of these mint/boxed as sold in the 1920's... just the usual plain old cardboard box for something they suffered oh so much to earn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notned Posted October 7, 2005 Author Share Posted October 7, 2005 Rick, thanks for showing the document, i have never seen one for the Brunswick cross. Cheers,Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 And the boxed set: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Very crisp, Rick. Still have it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Nope, only one I've ever seen. These are archive photos, it was sold last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) Gentlemen - In an effort to add to what little is left on this topic, I would like to mention that I have a packet (envelope) of issue to a non combat Brunswick MVK 2nd class cross which, owing to my continued inability to consistently post pictures, I will have to describe. If pictures of what I am describing should mysteriously appear, I will take the blame.This packet is made of heavy white paper, with a fold over tapered flap, and measures 74 mm x 80 mm. it marked as follows:Obverse. Herzoglich Braunschweigsches Kriegs-Verdienstkreuz mit gelbblauen BandeReverse. Herm J?rgens Hofjuwelier BraunschweigAs I mentioned, and it is so stated above, this is for a noncombatant cross. Nevertheless, I feel comfortable in saying that the combatants crosses, to which this thread is dedicated, had the same packets with the differently described ribbon.I hope that this information is helpful.Respectfully,Wild Card Edited October 9, 2005 by Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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