Soviet Soviet medal for combat service

[Noor]

Hello,

I would like to know more about my new award, what I just got this weekend. Like forum member "Lapa" point it out - this medal ribbon is not original

I would like to hear more oppinions about my medal. If its dont look good, then why? Like I understand, it was purchased 90-s and have not moved around until now, when I got it.

Also can someone tell me the awarding period, regarding the number on reverse. What would be the value of this award?

Lots of questions, I hope someone can answer to me!

[Guest Rick Research]

No the RIBBON is original-- it is the SCREW-DISK (from a badge) which is a period replacement.

Your 168,143?

Well, 168,415 was handed out on 8 January 1943

And 168,872 on 14 January 1943

So I'd say yours is from, ohhhhhhh, 3 to 5 January 1943.

It is one of the pre-Stalingrad "tide has turned" awards when the Soviets did not know they had ANY chance of winning the war.

"Value?"

God knows, any more. Deduct a LITTLE for the screw disk, but ADD some for the original ribbon. As recently as the late 1990s, dingy old ORIGINAL ribbons were being stripped for shiny new ones. NOW older ones are PREFERRED. Duh!!!!!

By the way... I must insist that this NOT be referred to as a "Combat Service Medal." I know that many Soviet dealers lazily, sloppily, and INCORRECTLY stick to that, but it is still WRONG. "Service" is "Sluzhba." This is "Zasluga" which is "Merit." The same gross error is perpetually perpetrated on the German War Merit (Verdienst) Crosses, which are NOT "War Service" (Dienst) Crosses.

Some may argue that "Voeyeviye" is "Combat," but realistically, I prefer the blander but more accurate "Military." Out of all the many millions ever awarded, the overwhleming majority were peacetime awards for 10 years long service and had NOTHING to do with "combat" at all.

So PLEASE use "Military Merit Medal" or if you must, "Combat Merit Medal," but never never never NEVER "Combat Service Medal!"

[Noor]

Thank you Rick!

When i saw it first, I fell in love of those square early ribbons! Is this award possible to track, any ideas? is it worth it (if possible.... YES it is.... but who is the person to contact then?)

Yes, I am familiar of the meaning but it is so confusing.... translate over three language its not easy sometimes, even after 12 years study a russian in school! I was sure that its must be mean "merit" but just before I checked collectrussia web and they translate it as a "service". I just dont trust my english usually

I dont have book here but is it possible to say awarding period of the OPW as well:

No. 226887

[Alfred]

I would say most likely summer 1945.

regards

Andreas

[Guest Rick Research]

OPw 1st-- May or June 1945.

I have been arguing that point with Igor for years and he just laughs. To be fair, I think whoever has the most hair should win.

Wild Card can be the judge, since he's seen us both recently and I haven't seen Igor since 2000, after a 4 hour car trip with a deranged WW2 veteran carrying 5 gallons of spare gas in an open top pail in the trunk of his car (which I only found out about AFTER getting there ALIVE).

[Dudeman]

By the way... I must insist that this NOT be referred to as a "Combat Service Medal." I know that many Soviet dealers lazily, sloppily, and INCORRECTLY stick to that, but it is still WRONG. "Service" is "Sluzhba." This is "Zasluga" which is "Merit." The same gross error is perpetually perpetrated on the German War Merit (Verdienst) Crosses, which are NOT "War Service" (Dienst) Crosses.

Some may argue that "Voeyeviye" is "Combat," but realistically, I prefer the blander but more accurate "Military." Out of all the many millions ever awarded, the overwhleming majority were peacetime awards for 10 years long service and had NOTHING to do with "combat" at all.

So PLEASE use "Military Merit Medal" or if you must, "Combat Merit Medal," but never never never NEVER "Combat Service Medal!"

Rick, this is your forum and you can call insist on calling a Combat Service Medal a "spade" if you prefer, but you should not criticize forum members for using, dare I say, the hobby standard over your "preference." The medal's title "Za boevye zaslugi" is tricky to translate yes, but Combat Service Medal is a perfectly fine variant, as attested to by Igor and others.

First, the medal was founded in 1938 to recognize COMBAT actions in Khalkhin Gol & Hasan - the actual very first recipients were Border Guards who apprehended violent criminals. The subsequent 1.2 or so MILLION decorations prior to late 1944 were awarded for COMBAT actions (of course with minor exceptions) and most of the subsequent recipients up 3.5+ million were also COMBAT veterans, whether they received the actual medal for their long SERVICE including combat or not.

Second, "zaslugi" or merit, in Russian is in the plural: cumulative merit = service. "Service" as used in the Combat Service Medal also captures the ideal that the medal was awarded largely post-1944 for long service.

Finally, Military Merit Medal works too, but by using that term you limit yourself to military and disregard Border Guard, NKVD, MVD, partisan, et al recipients. I would argue "martial" is actually a better word than "combat" or "military", but sounds pretty stupid in English.

Before you insist on lingual purity and disparage others' "lazy" and "sloppy" translations, you may want to look a little closer to home. Your translations, like "machinegun-artillery brigade" for "cannon artillery brigade", "flamethrower reconnaissance officer" for "intelligence officer in a flamethrower battalion" (I can guarantee you the good major wasn't putting on face paint and doing a passage of lines into no-man's land), learn what a "orudiinii nomer" is and I could continue.

[Paul R]

Hi Dudeman,

There is no need to be so harsh to Rick. He spends countless hours doing translations to the benefit of others, while asking for nothing in return. His Russian language skills are self learned, so mistakes do happen. From what I understand, Russian is not an easy language to conquer.

Despite the fact that we have more than a handful of native Russian speakers, none that I know of have routinely taken the time to assist members with tranlating their documents/research(and free of charge!). Rick takes hours of his time selflessly translating documents, to help his friends and fellow forum members.

Please cut him some slack. If you would like to assist our fellow members with translation services, I am sure that both they and Rick would be most appreciative.

regards

Paul

[Christophe]

Hi Paul,

I fully share your point about the fantastic job done by Rick!!!

Thanks again, Rick.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Guest Rick Research]

People who are regular, contributing, USEFUL members here (including Igor) are well aware of my sense of humor.

From now on we'll all just sit here holding our breaths waiting for YOU to professionally translate endless pages of research for free-- thanks so much for volunteering!!!!

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks for all your contributions, Rick, here and elsewhere.

"Dudeman", snide and insulting comments are not at home on this forum. We are different from others.

[Dudeman]

Yes, Rick?s contributions here are laudable.

I too would like to think I have humbly assisted the hobby in general and have promoted this site in the past, now regrettably. In particular, I've also done favors off-line for many (most?) of the forum subscribers here - in particular, Ed Haynes and Christophe with other things, but not limited to free, professional translations. I?ve also offered my services to others here via PMs who did not choose to accept them. I don?t wear personal favors on my sleeve or use them as a subterfuge, however.

Loyalty is nice, but still does not diminish my initial posting. I took issue with Rick?s orthodox insistence on his personal preference vis-?-vis a forum subscriber?s use of hobby standard (and yes, correct) terminology. I also demonstrated that in light of his abilities, Rick may not be in a position to criticize others? translations or others' use of them.

Whether or not you perceive this as snide or insulting is up to you.

[Christophe]

(...). In particular, I've also done favors off-line for many (most?) of the forum subscribers here - in particular, Ed Haynes and Christophe with other things, but not limited to free, professional translations. (...)

Hi,

As my name is mentioned here, I must comment.

1. We all know, here, Rick's sens of humor, and appreciate it. (At least try to appreciate it; English not being my mother language...) ... There was no agressivity in Rick's post, in my opinion.

2. My comment : "I fully share your point about the fantastic job done by Rick!!!" was clear enough, precise (each word counts), thanking Rick in a disinterested manner, as I think he did not work on any translation of a doc being mine... yet. My comment was not directed against you. It is not my style.

3. You stated : "I've also done favors off-line for many (most?) of the forum subscribers here - in particular, Ed Haynes and Christophe with other things...". I frankly don't see what you are referring to. Or maybe I am confused about your identity... Could you confirm this statement by giving an example ? If such, I would certainly apologise for my ingratitude.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Lapa]

...In particular, I've also done favors off-line for many (most?) of the forum subscribers here - in particular, Ed Haynes and Christophe with other things, but not limited to free, professional translations....

Apparently, I must be one of the few unlucky ones, as no one made me any on or off-line favors (yet... )

Marc

[Guest Rick Research]

No one has offered you their sisters yet?

As anyone who is an actively involved and persistent reader here knows, my campaign--nay crusade (OK, OK-- it is a Cult-- I'm working on tax-exempt "Living God" status but it's hard making the paper trail... so far the government refuses to accept a scan of my vast Global Pilgrimage Center as "proof" of actual deductible existence

) to convert the world from "CSM" to "MMM" is NEITHER criticism NOR put-down (and needs neither explaining nor "justification" to Regular Readers aware of the schtick)...

although, of course, my Apostles and I are theologically correct and all the rest of you will burn in hellfire eternal as apostates (can't say you weren't warned, buwahahahahahahaha)

but in the nature of long running and always good natured BANTER just as is the Eternal Struggle between me (the Good Twin) and my Evil Twin, the other Rick.

My deficiencies in Russian are hardly a secret, since I bemoan and indicate them at every posting with the bits I cannot GET, while begging--very often in vain, I might add--for assistance and clarification from better and more superior (uninvolved) beings.

However, if NOBODY ELSE ACTUALLY DOES TRANSLATIONS... it falls upon my less than perfect shoulders ALL THE TIME while threads sit and rot otherwise.

I have MORE than enough to do with GERMAN (etc) here in all the OTHER places where I am always helping my collecting brothers out.

My fellow Rick koopyetz is doing fantastic work translating (have yet to figure out how to place a 3rd Ricky in the structure of schlocky 1950s movies about homicidal/good twins, though...) and we are always grateful for the knowledge and experience of our Russian friends here in the subtleties and mysterious bits.

Point being: THEY HELP BY POSTING.

To all of you who DO actually make helpful posts---

(Assistant Apostle-ships are on Special Love Offering Sale, THIS WEEK ONLY.....)