Mounted at last !

[Gordon Williamson]

Well, after dithering around for long enough I eventually decided to get my father's medals properly mounted. Wasn't sure whether I should, as he'd never bothered and they spent most of their life in a little cardboard box but as they are going to my daughter who is the keen genealogist in the family, at least it'll keep them from getting separated or lost. Enlisted Regular Army 1939, served with 51 (Highland) Div. Discharged 1946 then re-enlisted for another year or so before finally coming out of the service.

[Ed_Haynes]

Well done!

[Alex K]

Very nice group, well done for preserving a nice group before they get scattered to the wind as I assume they are not named as per most WWII service medals

regards

Alex

[Gordon Williamson]

Yes, only the Territorial Medal is named the remainder as per usual, being blank.

I am fortunate enough that some of his other stuff survived.

[Gordon Williamson]

And paperwork including his Paybook and Warrant Card. The Paybook particularly gives a fair bit of info on where he served. I know he was in Durban in South Africa, then North Africa, wounded in Italy and then he was in Normandy in June 44.

[Gordon Williamson]

Commendation from Lt.Gen Ritchie of Scottish Command.

[leigh kitchen]

Nice, I may get around to mounting my fathers WWII Stars & GSM Palestine - although he has not worn them (they are c1969 replacements for his original issue) I don't regard mounting them in these circumstances, by family as "cheating", just a smart way of presenting them & a way to ensure that they stay together.

Are you going to frame them with the documents & with photos?

[Riley1965]

:jumping: FANTASTIC job mounting them!!! You have done a GREAT job preserving your families history!!!

Doc

[Brian Wolfe]

What a great job of the mounting, plus the supporting docments and other items makes this a museum quality grouping.

Well done.

Cheers

Brian

[Chris Boonzaier]

With unnamed medals mounting them could also be considered as "Saving them" in the long run, especially when there is a named medal with it....

[Tony]

Did you mount them yourself Gordon or have it done? Very nice to have one named medal in there. No one in my family wanted their medals but I was lucky enough to get my grandad's group re-issued in the early 90s. All unnamed of course but nice to have the issue slip in his name.

Was it unusual to do Africa, Italy and France/Germany or was he at Dunkirk too?

Tony

[leigh kitchen]

Id've thought that Africa /F & G or Africa / Italy were the more usual combinations, rather than Africa / F & G / Italy.

I can't thnk offhand of any groups I have that have the 3 Stars.

Dunkirk service could be represented in this group by the 39 - 45 Star, I have at least one group with 39 - 45 for Dunkirk, plus Africa & Italy.

[Tony]

Id've thought that Africa /F & G or Africa / Italy were the more usual combinations, rather than Africa / F & G / Italy.

I can't thnk offhand of any groups I have that have the 3 Stars.

Dunkirk service could be represented in this group by the 39 - 45 Star, I have at least one group with 39 - 45 for Dunkirk, plus Africa & Italy.

My step father's dad has the same as Gordon's dad apart from the F & G Star. He received his medals only to throw them in the bin shortly afterwards. Being unnamed, I bought replacements and they now hang mounted in a frame with his photo.

Are yours swing mounted Gordon?

Quick edit - he wasn't TA either so only has 5 medals.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Tony

[leigh kitchen]

Just occurred to me Gordon - was'nt there a "mutiny" in 51st Highland Division, in Italy? Returning wounded objecting to being "returned" to other units rather than their original ones - thereby being new boys & more "expendable" within a sub unit than established men returning to their mates?

Have I got this round my neck, was it 51st Div?

If it was then your dad being CMP may have had a lively time of it.

[Gordon Williamson]

Was it unusual to do Africa, Italy and France/Germany or was he at Dunkirk too?

No, he wasn't at Dunkirk. I think at the outbreak of war and for the first few months he was in South Africa (Durban), from where he joined 51 HD in North Africa, then up through Italy, in Normandy and through Germany.

Just occurred to me Gordon - was'nt there a "mutiny" in 51st Highland Division, in Italy? Returning wounded objecting to being "returned" to other units rather than their original ones - thereby being new boys & more "expendable" within a sub unit than established men returning to their mates?

Have I got this round my neck, was it 51st Div?

You are correct, it was 51 HD. Returning wounded were split up and sent to units other than their home unit. I don't think it was the thought of being a greater risk as the new boys in a strange unit. Goes a LOT deeper than that. One should never underestimate the depth of unit identity amongst Highlanders. Even being posted to a Scottish Lowland Regiment would be horrendous for some Highlanders, let alone being posted to "foreign" units.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salerno_Mutiny

I doubt that 51 HD Pro Coy would have been involved though, as these men were, by definition, not with 51 HD. Probably a lot of ill feeling within the Division though with their mates not being allowed to rejoin them. With the Highland Division, it was common for whole extended family units to serve in the same Regiments. Fathers, sons, brothers, cousins, all very Clannish, and not happy to serve with those who were not their own people.

[ccj]

very nice....

nice family group

[MCMH]

A very nicely mounted group Gordon. You've raised an interesting point, namely inheritance. I know.

When I used to live in Nottinham I got a family group of Sutlej & Punjab and Punjan & Mutiny to brothers, the seller knew the latter was his great, great grandfathers, but given they were his grandmother's family didn't care. I presume this must be one of the most common reason why people part with medals, even if they have been in the family a long while.

[Paul R]

That is a great set of heirlooms!! Nice job on the mounting!

paul

[Hugh]

Speaking of mounting, I'm about to reveal yet another profundity of my ignorance. I've seen many British medal bars, quite long, but can't remember seeing a medals set in two (or more) rows. )Medals, not ribbons). Yes, yes, I know, the Brits seldom give enough to justify two rows, but, has anyone ever seen it?

Hugh

[Guest Rick Research]

Gordon-- how/when did your dad earn a Territorial long service if he was Regular army?

[leigh kitchen]

Lot's of men served in the Territorials prior to & during WWII, it's still very common for people to join the TA after they have left the regular army.

[David S]

And . . . war time service counted double

[Hugh]

Speaking of mounting ribbons (not medals), what's the maximum number of ribbons wide the Brits use - four? Five? I can't remember all those pictures I've seen.

Hugh

[James Hoard]

Speaking of mounting ribbons (not medals), what's the maximum number of ribbons wide the Brits use - four? Five? I can't remember all those pictures I've seen.

Hugh

I think it also depends on the width of individuals ribbons. If one has a couple of Grand Crosses, for example, one may only be able to fit a couple.

[MattGibbs]

Speaking of mounting ribbons (not medals), what's the maximum number of ribbons wide the Brits use - four? Five? I can't remember all those pictures I've seen.

Hugh

Hugh;

For the Navy its 3, more than 3 and you start overlapping. Not so nice looking to frame though, I think. I have a group of 4 to a stoker who joined in 1909 and I decided to court mount them just for framing, WW1 trio and LS&GC.

For the army I believe its 5 on swing mounting. Not sure on court mounting like Gordon has done. However, for my money court mounting looks much better. I recently mounted a WW2 group for a friend, with TEM and 2 Bars, his grandfather was in 3 Commando. Real nice to know the family had an interest in keeping them, and displaying them too! With overlapping IIRC the method is to allow 1/3rd of the overlapped ribbon to show. This means you can get about 9 medals on to a 5 place bar which just nicely would fit above the pocket on a uniform. More than that looks a bit naff and crowded. [but thats just an aesthetic opinion]

Those look great Gordon, really nice to have that history.

ttfn