TeNo TN Technische Nothilfe Uniforms, Insignia & Other

[dblmed]

Paul ... NICE TeNo Photo which shows us a lot of great information!

Date - is between mid 1935 (when the TN Visor Eagle came out) and early 1937 (last date that the Square TN Armscheibe could be worn, instead of the TN Eagle Triangle sleeve patch.

Even narrower Date - is prior to the 1936 shoulder board change - to both shoulders. So, it is a nice narrow time frame.

Collars - Can't tell for sure, but it looks like NO Collar Patch - and just Arabic #'s LT. and Roman Numerals on RT. The familiar TN Collar Tab, was another 1936 Introduction.

? WWI Ribbons - he looks young, but who knows?

Nice NCO/EM Visor and correct TN Uniform. Love the Belt and Cross Strap (+ Gloves.)

Could be the same TN Mann, but to me he looks a little different. Any writing on the Reverse?

A Nice TN representative photo showing early TN Uniform & Insignia Details. Txs, Dave/dblmed

[paulbear]

Hi Dave thought that arm patch would catch your eye. You are correct about the collars and the ribbons are WW1.

paul

[dblmed]

Paul ... Yep, you are 100% right that the LT. Sleeve TeNo 1933 Armscheibe Patch got my attention.!

To my eyes, it is one of the most striking of the TeNo / TN insignia patches. Photos showing it, let you

know that you have a nice 'Early' TeNo photo.

Dated photos confirm that it was introduced in late 1933. The 'Square TN Patch' was authorized to be worn

until 1937, when only the TN Eagle Triangle Patch was to be worn on the LT. sleeve per regulations. Apparently

the TN gave the members 2 years (1935-1937) to make the Uniform transition.

The TN Eagle Triangle Patch was introduced in 1935, along with the new TN Eagle Emblem for the Visors.

Below are TeNo 1933 Armscheibe Patches from 2 Different Makers (Manufacturers) - interestingly that BOTH

have Ges. Gesch. on them! Both are the familiar 15 Cogs, but some minor differences, such as the width of

the "T" and others. Bevo-Barmen became BEVO, but G & W is a still unknown Maker. ..... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Edited March 8, 2009 by dblmed

[paulbear]

WELL there is another patch on the want list lol

PAUL

[dblmed]

A Posting from Gary8 on the GDC TeNo Thread to share

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc...2280097494/p/18

My, Gary!

...This is a 'Heart Attack' display of really hard to find & superbe TeNo / TN Items!

? 2 of the Gold Thread Embroidered TN 'Year Honor Cuffs" titles

? A nice TN Lapel Pin - mit Nadel (Zivilabzeichen)

? 4 of the 5 TN Honor Badges!!

....looks like 1923-1922-1920-1919 (!) ...on my screen?

Quite Spectacular & Thanks for Sharing! Best ...Dave/dblmed

[Paul R]

More great stuff!!! Where do you find all of it?

I would have thought that those CTs were related to the Stahelm organization.

[dblmed]

Thanks Paul, The Super Collection shown above is from my friend, Gary8, who LOVES to throw

Great TeNo ? TN Items at me, just to get me drooling over them!

I do have the 1920 & 1922 TN Cuff Titles in my Collection. I have never seen ALL 5 years, but I

am sure that some lucky collector has them! I've examined about 12 of these Cuff Titles, and ALL

(that I have seen), which are full length, have the GES. GESCH. G & W, a yet Unknown Maker.

The Cuffs are quite attractive, using Gold Wire Thread for the Date Year, and 3 Laurel Leaves on

either side, on a black cloth base.

For a yet unknown reason, the RATN, Reichsamt Technische Nothilfe, issued an order in about mid

1936, that the Honor Cuff Band was to be worn in place of the TN Honor Badge (But, that the Badges

could be kept by their recipients.) These TN Cuff Titles are MUCH less common than the TN Honor

Badge, which itself is not that common (only about 5,500 TN HB's were issued - so, it would seem

that the same number of TN Cuff Titles should have also been issued. But, where are they?) Finding

TN Items? Is a constant search of about 10 years; networking with other TeNo collectors and Dealers.

But, most often - it is just plain luck of finding a TN item on some Dealer's site! I check often!

Below are 2 of the 1920 TN Cuff Titles, showing the Front and Reverse, and an Enlargement of the

GES. GESCH. G & W maker. .... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Edited April 18, 2009 by dblmed

[Camonut]

I'm a new member to the Club. I have been collecting for a sometime, primarily WWII German militaria. I recently added a TeNo tunic to my collection, identical to the M-40 wool combat tunic. It has four pleated and scalloped pockets. The collar is the same color as the rest of the tunic, a different color green with a hint of gray. It has a closed collar, and a five button front. All the buttons have the TeNo symbol with the cogwheel in the background. The black slip-on boards at one time had metal ciphers of some sort but are now missing. The collar tabs are also black and again had some aluminum unit numbers at one time. So obviously I'm looking for the correct ciphers. The sleeve has a bevo TeNo cufftitle and flat wire sleeve eagle. I would estimate the size to be ~40 US and has a full green-gray rayon liner and white striped sleeve lining. It's has one size stamping (55) and a huge black ink TeNo stamp. I have tried unsuccessfully to upload some pictures. but will make another attempt at this time...I'm looking forward to contributing what I can to the club.

Edited May 9, 2009 by Camonut

[paulbear]

Hi and welcome. Very interesting and nice tunic congrats. I am sure Dave will have more and very detailed info for you

PAUL

[dblmed]

Hi Camonut!

I join Paul, in WELCOMING you on board!!!, and especially welcoming you to the TeNo ? TN Thread! This is a thread where we Share & Learn about the TeNo, so you are right at home.

You have a very RARE and a very Neat TeNo Uniform! Your TeNo Uniform is a beauty from what you have shown us thus far. (Please Post LOTS and LOTS of photos of it, including the interior, with the TN Stamp, and any other itentifiers.)

From the looks of it - I believe that your Uniform is probably have the '1st Model' Field-Grey TN Uniform, authorized in late 1939/1940, for the TN Einsatztruppen. (A '2nd Model' appeared later [? about 1941] with the only difference (of which I am aware), being the use of Heer Green Uniform Collar.) The wear of the 1st / 2nd TN Field-Grey then continued through Mid 1943 (Officially, but this model was actually worn until the end of the war, in some instances.) The Police 'Green' Uniform was 'Officially' to be worn by the TN units, outside of the Reich, from Mid 1943 on. (But, there were referenced production and distribution problems, and ALL TN units, did not change over.)

Attached is a nice Foto of a mixture of TN Uniforms in wear, that I recently purchased (and haven't received the photo group yet - thus the Red lines from the seller.)

This photo was taken in about late 1941 (IMO), and it shows:

• Far Right = YOUR Uniform type - 1st Model TN Field-Grey
• # 3 & 4 from Right = 2nd Model TN Field-Grey (with Green Collar) - & TN Officers wearing Heer Visors
• # 5 from Right = TN Officer in 'Standard' TN Dunkelblau Classic TN Uniform.
• # 2 from Right & Far Left & 2 TN Men in Front - Heer Field-Grey Uniforms (or TN 1st Models which have been altered to Heer Types - the Only difference (to my knowledge) was the use of pebbled buttons, on the Heer type - but there may be some differences, of which I am not aware!)

Camonut - Post LOTS of Photos of your special TN Uniform!!!! ..... Txs, Dave/dblmed

[paulbear]

GREAT PHOTO DAVE. all that contrast in one pic what a great find for the researcher.

PAUL

[nesredep]

I'm a new member to the Club. I have been collecting for a sometime, primarily WWII German militaria. I recently added a TeNo tunic to my collection, identical to the M-40 wool combat tunic. It has four pleated and scalloped pockets. The collar is the same color as the rest of the tunic, a different color green with a hint of gray. It has a closed collar, and a five button front. All the buttons have the TeNo symbol with the cogwheel in the background. The black slip-on boards at one time had metal ciphers of some sort but are now missing. The collar tabs are also black and again had some aluminum unit numbers at one time. So obviously I'm looking for the correct ciphers. The sleeve has a bevo TeNo cufftitle and flat wire sleeve eagle. I would estimate the size to be ~40 US and has a full green-gray rayon liner and white striped sleeve lining. It's has one size stamping (55) and a huge black ink TeNo stamp. I have tried unsuccessfully to upload some pictures. but will make another attempt at this time...I'm looking forward to contributing what I can to the club.

Hello!

Welcome to GMIC.I look forward to see your Collection.Nice Tunic you show.

All the best

Nesredep

[nesredep]

Hi Camonut!

I join Paul, in WELCOMING you on board!!!, and especially welcoming you to the TeNo ? TN Thread! This is a thread where we Share & Learn about the TeNo, so you are right at home.

You have a very RARE and a very Neat TeNo Uniform! Your TeNo Uniform is a beauty from what you have shown us thus far. (Please Post LOTS and LOTS of photos of it, including the interior, with the TN Stamp, and any other itentifiers.)

From the looks of it - I believe that your Uniform is probably have the '1st Model' Field-Grey TN Uniform, authorized in late 1939/1940, for the TN Einsatztruppen. (A '2nd Model' appeared later [? about 1941] with the only difference (of which I am aware), being the use of Heer Green Uniform Collar.) The wear of the 1st / 2nd TN Field-Grey then continued through Mid 1943 (Officially, but this model was actually worn until the end of the war, in some instances.) The Police 'Green' Uniform was 'Officially' to be worn by the TN units, outside of the Reich, from Mid 1943 on. (But, there were referenced production and distribution problems, and ALL TN units, did not change over.)

Attached is a nice Foto of a mixture of TN Uniforms in wear, that I recently purchased (and haven't received the photo group yet - thus the Red lines from the seller.)

This photo was taken in about late 1941 (IMO), and it shows:

• Far Right = YOUR Uniform type - 1st Model TN Field-Grey
• # 3 & 4 from Right = 2nd Model TN Field-Grey (with Green Collar) - & TN Officers wearing Heer Visors
• # 5 from Right = TN Officer in 'Standard' TN Dunkelblau Classic TN Uniform.
• # 2 from Right & Far Left & 2 TN Men in Front - Heer Field-Grey Uniforms (or TN 1st Models which have been altered to Heer Types - the Only difference (to my knowledge) was the use of pebbled buttons, on the Heer type - but there may be some differences, of which I am not aware!)

Camonut - Post LOTS of Photos of your special TN Uniform!!!! ..... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Hello!

Nice photo.Amazing tread,i like it a lot.

All the best

Nesredep

[Paul R]

Hi Camonut! Welcome to the GMIC! It is great to see you!.

I would love to see some more photos of the M40 TeNo Tunic. I have never seen that configuration. Are there any stamps inside the tunic, on the liner?

[Camonut]

Thanks for the warm welcome and will try to be an active participant. Navigating the site is a bit challenging for me, but I'll figure it out...I've only recently decome interested in the TeNo Branch. In the uniform arena my collecting focus is summer/tropical combat tuics, Army Luft and Police, with a few of exceptions of which this is one! I have included a few more Pics per your request. I greatly appreciate the information that everyone has provided re:TeNo and hope you enjoy the photos..

[Camonut]

A couple more..TeNo

[Paul R]

Thanks for the additional photos. Did this tunic come from Bill Shea? It looks like this wearer had a larger abdominal girth to him!

Are there any stamps inside of the tunic?

[Camonut]

Thanks for the additional photos. Did this tunic come from Bill Shea? It looks like this wearer had a larger abdominal girth to him!

Are there any stamps inside of the tunic?

Correct on both accounts these are the only stamps.

[dblmed]

Camonut - Super TN Field-Grey Uniform! Thanks for the additional Photos.

I missed seeing this one on Bill Shea's site. Good catch! Usually Bill has a pretty nice

write up on his items. "If" you still have it, could you please post the write up, as there

may be some nice "Pearls" of information in there?

The 1st TN Field-Greys had the 'usual' shiney TN logo buttons. Then (IMO) as the potential

for armed confrontations for the TN men became very apparent, TN Tunics were issued with

a more realistic OD color buttons- as on your tunic. (With the OD colored buttons, I believe

that it would date from about late 1940, and probably 1941, at the earliest.)

Your TN Tunic, as is, is just perfect - as Many of the TN units were required to remove the

COG from their Left Collar Tab, and the Roman/Arabic Numerals from the Right Collar Tab.

(But - it is more fun to have those on a display uniform, I'll grant you!!!) It is difficult to find

TN Collar Tabs (but not impossible), but it is next to impossible to find a loose COG or the

unique TN Numerals (as Paul Bear and I can attest!)

Camonut - "IF" you haven't picked up a copy of Bender "German Police, Vol. 2" RUN, don't

Walk, to get one!! (from Bender or Amazon, etc.) There is a 220+ page TN Chapter in it, and

2 dedicated Appendices for the TN. It has some amazing item for Polizei and TN Collectors.

Below is a Photo of a TN Man wearing a Tunic such as yours. (Now the search begins to try

to locate a Field-Grey Side Cap for you to finish it off!) ... Congrats!! ... Dave/dblmed

[Paul R]

Yes!! That is the coat I remember seeing!! Ultra rare... perhaps one of a kind!! I love it!! I am sure that you must be very happy with it! I would be and I dont even collect this area!

[Camonut]

per your request.....

RARE M-40 TeNo Combat Tunic..I personally have never laid eyes on anything like this before and must say I fell quite honestly that a tunic of this nature is 20 times as rare as an SS combat tunic with cufftitle. This is cut identical to a M-40 wool combat tunic in that it has four pleated and scalloped pockets. The collar is the same color as the rest of the tunic. In this case, even the color is unique. It's a different color green and actually has a hint of gray. It's a closed collar, five button, set up. All the buttons have the TeNo symbol with the cogwheel in the background. The black slip-on boards are unique to the TeNo service with the silver bullion piping with black twisted thread running through the bullion. At one time these had metal ciphers of some sort but these are missing. The collar tabs are also black with the same piping. These also had some aluminum unit numbers at one time. There is a new book out which has a huge section on TeNo and I think we can probably find out what these ciphers were. The sleeve has a mega bevo TeNo cufftitle and flat wire sleeve eagle. These, just like every other aspect of this choice offering, is 100% original to the piece. Even the belt hooks (with only a one hole set up) are special. This approximately size 40 tunic has a full green-gray rayon liner and white striped sleeve lining. It's got the one size stamping (55) as found in political type tunics and a huge black ink TeNo stamp. I really cannot overemphasize just how rare this combat piece really is. All this, and the condition is overall excellent!

[dblmed]

Thanks Camonut! You Really KNOW that you have a Special TN Item when Bill Shea (Ruptured Duck) says:

"I personally have never laid eyes on anything like this before and must say I feel quite honestly that a tunic

of this nature is 20 times as rare as an SS combat tunic with cufftitle."

I certainly don't have Bill's experience, but in 10 years of TN Collecting, this is the 1st example of the TN

specific Field-Grey Uniform that I am aware of, in a collection anywhere. (I always try to remember that

there are some of the 'old time' collectors, who do not Post on Forums, & some German collectors who may

not Post, due to the Legal pecularities of TR items in Germany. So there may be another one out there - but

it's certainly a Rare item!)

I have a 1943-1945 TeNo/Police Tunic (in Police Green cloth), somewhat 'Rare' like your Tunic - as there are

only 2 examples (in 'known' collections.) It is great fun to see the 'pieces' of the TN puzzle coming together.

(1) One area where your TN Field-Grey 'may' differ from the standard M40 tunic, is with regards to the Loops

for the shoulder straps, IMO. The TN Shoulder Boards had a peculiar 'narrow tongue' strap vs. the wider strap

for HEER boards. Thus, I 'imagine' that your tunic has a "narrow" sewn in intrinsic shoulder board loops, so that

the TN shoulder boards didn't flop around.

? Can you confirm whether or not, this is a correct assumption?

(2) The black slip-on boards are unique to the TeNo service with the silver bullion piping with black

twisted thread running through the bullion. At one time these had Metal Ciphers of some sort but these are missing.

I would never disagree with the Duck, as there must obviously be some holes there in the shoulder boards. Bill is a friend, and he's

taught me plenty!! I would just comment, that there are no period regulations (of which I am aware) for any metal Ciphers on TN

shoulder boards. [This does not exclude the possibility that an individual may have placed some individualized metal Ciphers in the

boards, at some time. Soldiers wore some strange things on their uniforms, contrary to convention and to regulations, as we have all

seen from time to time!)

(3) Even the belt hooks (with only a one hole set up) are special.

? This is unusual and intriguing!

? As you have time, can you show us a Photo of this special detail? Sounds neat!

(4) Attached are 2 TN Shoulder Boards, just like yours - showing the 'narrow tongue' found on TN Shoulder Boards.

I also added an OD TN Button, as these look so nice! It is Not marked, but 'most' TN Buttons were made by Assmann.

I don't know 'if' Assmann was the only company to use "Extra Fein" on their buttons, or not. As a uniform collector,

you'll know the answer far better than I do.

Fantastic TN Field-Grey Tunic!! Love that TN Stamp inside the Tunic! Thanks for Sharing it...... Best, Dave/dblmed

Edited May 12, 2009 by dblmed

[Camonut]

Dave/Paul, many thanks for all the information re: TN, and especially the PICs..and details regarding my 1st variation Field-Grey. Truely I have gone through collecting tunics the hard-way in some cases,and likewise gained much knowledge from the Duck....as well! I will be MORE the happy to send endless PIC's as soon as it arrives...I don't yet have it in my sweaty hands. Ha! I did just receive Angolia-Taylor's German Police Vol II..Awsome!!!...and also Defending the Reich, by David Littlejohn. What outstanding reference publications, just unbelievable. Did the Cufftitle come into existance in 1940 or later? All of the of 1941 photos I've seen the TN member is not wearing the CT. Littlejohn states the field-grey Wehrmacht/Heer type tunic was for ware only in occupied countries and Not worn in Germany (pg479). I caught Dave's comment on the shoulder board rank..so it brings into question Littlejohn's statement that "when wearing the field-grey uniform the same TN collar patch was worn on both sides of the collar, as well as TN shoulder straps/boards". So does that suggest the that rank was displayed both on the collar tabs & boards? Not sure I understand what was expected to be there given this statement. Angolia says rank only on both collar litzen, which is in line with Dave's statement. It looks like rank for my tunic belonged to a "what"? If no rank was applied to the shoulder boards what should have been on the collar litzen, left & right, if they were to be the same. confused!! I am by NO means an expert on TN..as you can see. I do love the spirit of the hunt and the exchange of discovery and historical information. I have an opportunity to acquire a TeNo service manual, oilcloth cover, ~100 pages, 5x8 format dated 1939. Thought it might be a nice addition while hunting the real tough-stuff! Also,

were the EM/NCO's authorized to carry sidearms? I see Officer's were authorized in 1938. I'll send more pic's as soon as the cloth arrives. promise..

[dblmed]

Camonut - LOTS of Great TN Questions! You are becoming a true TN-Mann & that's great.

YES, buy ANY period TN publications by, or about, the TN - as that is where new information comes from!

I'm 'pressed' for time just now, but I will answer all of your great questions, very shortly - "IF" PaulBear doesn't

beat me to it! ... Txs, Dave/dblmed

[dblmed]

Camonut - Yes, you are right! "I did just receive Angolia-Taylor's German Police Vol II..Awsome!!!...

and also Defending the Reich, by David Littlejohn. What outstanding reference publications, just unbelievable."

Before these 2 splendid publications, especially Pol. Vol. 2 - we were 'in the dark' as TN Collectors!

YES, we want LOTS of Photos of your special TN Uniform! "I will be MORE the happy to send endless

PIC's as soon as it arrives...I don't yet have it in my sweaty hands."

The best Answers to your questions are to be found in Photos, IMO, as they show "How it really was!"

Q: "Did the Cufftitle come into existence in 1940 or later? All of the of 1941 photos I've seen the TN

member is not wearing the CT."

I'll have to say that I don't remember the exact date of introduction of the TN Cufftitle, but hopefully

it will be found in one or the other, of the 2 books. It was prior to 1940, by my recollection.

The TN Cufftitles are seen in many of the 1941 Photos (I am very lucky to have 7 TN FotoAlbums!),

but the CT's do seem to 'fade' out in 1942, and later for the TN Enisatztruppen. The reason is that

from May, 1941 on, 'most' of the TN Enisatztruppen were transferred to the HEER as the "Technische Truppen"

under Eric Hampe. They gradually 'lost' their identity as former TN-men, with the exception of the

rarely photographed 1942 TN-to-Heer Rt. Sleeve Patch and an even more seldom seen Black "T" on a

strap to be placed across the Shoulder Boards.

Here is an April, 1941 Photo w the TN Cufftitle in place (Lt. TN-Mann)

More fun TN to follow! .....Dave/dblmed