Imperial Russia Cossack Picture.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

just picked this up at the local Hobby Club meeting this evening,

it shows a group 7 men on horseback, numbers 1,2,4, are wearing a unit cross(?)

Any opinions welcome.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Kev in Deva]

Close-up of number 2 horseman.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Ed_Haynes]

Assume they're not Soviets, but unrepentant "whites" perhaps collaborating with the Hitlerites if this is WWII-era?

[Guest Rick Research]

You're off about 20 years.

The blurry close up is a cross commemorating internment in a refugee camp 1920-21 for members of General Wrangel's army evacuated from the Crimea in 1920. These bear designations with 1920 on the top arm, 1921 on the bottom, and the name of the camp across the middle:

Gallipoli, Lemnos, Bizerta etc.

So dates circa 1923 or so I'd say from the youth of the men. Will move to the Imperial Russian section since this is an aftermath of the Civil War subject.

[Kev in Deva]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2008/post-950-1224272456.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2008/post-950-1224272672.jpg

Rider 1 close-up and Rider 4.

Hallo Ed and Ricky,

many thanks for your response, I will post a picture of the rear

of the card tomorrow as its written in red pencil

and wont photograph under house lights, so I will try natural light.

Its addressed to a location, in the town of Arad, Western Romania

Interestingly there is also a lead penciled notation to: "Geoagiu de jos Baile,

Villa Dublesiu, Judet: Hunedoara," (which is a spa bath not far from Deva where I live,)

and there are 3 stamps, one partially removed and one of which depicts the Romanian King Carol II.

The postmark date is unreadable to my eyes.

This card was being tossed around the room at the Hobby Club, when I arrived this evening,

some guy was looking to sell a stack of postcards for drink money, it caught my eye and I decided to take it.

Ricky, can you post an example of the crosses you mentioned??

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Edited October 17, 2008 by Kev in Deva

[Guest Rick Research]

Though badly out of focus, I think the first biggest one you posted is "Lemnos."

Page of them here from ? P. Pashkov's "The White Armies' Orders & Badges in the Civil War 1917-1922" English translation of 1983:

I was able to xerox the Russian language one of 1961 but that's in worse shape to scan a copy from since it is older than most of our readers.

The Allies INSISTED that the men be re-settled in host countries AS UNITS rather than individually, which I would have thought (in addition to simply being bizarre) was politically and militarily dangerous, for those uncertain times.

I knew a survivor of the 1919 "Ice March" (lost all his toes, which fascinated me as a yout' never having seen frostbite amputations before or since) who was resettled in what was then "Jugoslavia," where he ended up with the Chetniks in the Second War.

These are not technically "unit badges" since they are of a place and not specific units. The ones made while still in internment were quite crude, whereas ones made in places like Paris in the "affluent" late 1920s were made in silver and enamel. They fall into every material in between, since the wearer had to buy his own-- wherever he ended up.

One thing is certain-- no pretender would have gotten away with having CLAIMED to have been entitled to one as long as the real veterans were around.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Ricky,

thanks for the scan, interesting items, and additional info.

I attach pictures of the back, perhaps Carol I could translate.

Cropped close ups to follow.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Kev in Deva]

Message.

Penciled location.

Stamps.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[Kev in Deva]

Main Address:-

Kevin in Deva.

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, the recipient is in HUNGARIAN, the upper message is in that and GERMAN (mixed) , and the lower message is in ROMANIAN.

Unfortunately the blurred wrinkled grease pencil defies any clear reading of the only one of those I can read-- but the next to last line is "zu Gutern" in German script.

[Carol I]

I attach pictures of the back, perhaps Carol I could translate.

As Rick has said, only the writing in black pencil is in Romanian, and that is an address. I presume it was that of the sender.

Geoagiu de Jos (Lower Geoagiu)

Băile (Spas)

Villa Dubleşiu (Dubleşiu Villa, Dubleşiu being most likely the name of the owner of the house)

Jud. Hunedoara (Hunedoara County)

[Kev in Deva]

Many thanks, I know the area well, as I pass through

it regularly on the way to Almasu Mic, via Balsha

to my country Villa

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[eitze]

Here`s apicture of a Russian book about the Civil War Decorations, which I once owned.

Can`t read anything

greetings

eitze

[eitze]

And the second page.

[cossack]

Just in case anyone looks back at this, the photo is of some Cossack 'djigits' or trick-riders. The badges are Lemnos crosses as most of the cossacks (particularly Kuban) were dumped there after the Civil War. The djigit groups were very popular between the wars & enabled many of the cossacks to get gainful employment.

I hope this helps!

[Kev in Deva]

Hi cossack,

many thanks for the up-date.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Chuck In Oregon]

IMG_2235ABC.jpgIMG_2235ABCD.jpg

I'm late to the game but I'd like to offer a different interpretation of these photos. The regional hat (I have several), the distinctive and traditional choka (tunic) and the kindjal all suggest Georgian to me. Georgia wasn't conquered until 1921 so 1920s works, maybe late '20s. A trick rider group of escaped/resettled/whatever Whites isn't impossible, I suppose (see Buffalo Bill), but that seems sacrilegious to me and I tend to doubt it.

Nice find.

Chuck

[JapanX]

This is russian cossack with (most likely) "Lemnos" cross (post #2).

Just in case anyone looks back at this, the photo is of some Cossack 'djigits' or trick-riders ...The djigit groups were very popular between the wars & enabled many of the cossacks to get gainful employment.

Every cossack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks can be (with proper training) a dzhigit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhigit

The regional hat (I have several), the distinctive and traditional choka (tunic) and the kindjal all suggest Georgian to me.

Chuck, these are typical elements of cossack uniform http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,3704.0.html

Cheers,

Nick

Edited August 5, 2013 by JapanX

[Sajkaca]

one action photo from the Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenes (after 1929 Kingdom of Yugoslavia), where apx 20.000 Russians found their new home, with big support of King Alexander I

[Sajkaca]

General Wrangel in Serbia with his men.

[Chuck In Oregon]

one action photo from the Kingdom of Serbs Croats and Slovenes (after 1929 Kingdom of Yugoslavia), where apx 20.000 Russians found their new home, with big support of King Alexander I

Dzigitovka.jpg

Thank you. I stand corrected and better informed.

Chuck

[Sajkaca]

another photo of General Wrangel in Serbia

[JapanX]

Exellent photo of Lemnos badge cavalier

back

[JapanX]

[PREM]

Commemorative Gallipoli Cross of General Wrangel's army from my collection ?