Ed Maroli Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Hello, From what I found on Dave Danners site the Oval Duke Carl Eduard medal with Crown and Sword clasp was awarded 344 times. Is there any listing of the numbers awarded without the swords (non combatant)? Thanks, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Alas, while it must certainly exist, I don't have the non-Xs list. The with-X list is included in the Triple Ernestine Duchies WW1 Awards Rolls book (3 copies remaining for America del Norte ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Maroli Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Rick,Thanks for the response. I was asking in conjunction with this Bavarian bar that I picked up at the MAX. I assume it's non-researchable, but belonged to a Hauptmann or possibly a Major.Thanks again,Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 DID you, by God!!!!! I tried and I tried and I whined and I pleaded with Paul C to get that bar, but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. That's NOT a peacetime one-- it is one of SEVEN awarded to Bavarians during the war WITHOUT the bar. RARE RARE RARE RARE RARE and luckily Unique.Oskar BERGNERborn 1871Feuerwerks-Leutnant 25.06.06Feuerwerks-Oberleutnant 28.10.12Feuerwerks-Hauptmann 14.01.16charakterisiert Feuerwerks-Major aD circa 1920Of the Lucky Seven (doesn't it look great next to the 1905 Luitpold Jubilee Medal? ), Bergner was the ONLY one with a BMV4X and XXIV.He received his BMV4X on frontline ribbon before April 1916 while still an Oberleutnant, so not in the Rolls that have been published to date. But it's confirmed as a gold-centered version to him in that secret 1916: and 1918 Rank Lists. Also had the EK2 by April 1916 as the above shows.His same-as-peacetime Saxe Coburg Carl Eduard Medal with no swords device was gazetted in the Bavarian Personal Nachrichten on 13 May 1916, so we JUST missed having him in that last Rank List that showed ALL awards during the war. There was probably at least a month or so delay, maybe more. Figure he actually got in early in 1916.He was still listed by his PEACETIME assignment (a peculiarity of Bavarian wartime gazettes) at the Artillery & Train Depot Direction, so do not know why or where he REALLY got this. Two Zeug officers got theirs with him or at least close enough to have been gazetted in the same PN with him. Another recipient was a retired Feuerwerks officer called back up, and one was a Feuerwerks officer on staff of the bavarian War Ministry -- so ordnance/explosives officers = 5 of 7. The ramaining 2 were aFeldpost official, and a reserve doctor.Bergner had been THE ordnance officer of the 1st Field Artillery Brigade in 1909. In 1913 he was on the staff of Artillery Depot Ingolstadt. Chances are he switched between wartime assignments like a divisional ammunition depot officer to something on higher staff for ammunition supply. Perhaps not quote unquote exciting but...I can't think of anything MORE exciting (well, in Imperial German militaria collecting ) than a definitively unique anonymous medal bar ID.They don't ALL have to be "famous" to BE unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 As an outsider: BRAVO! Makes you wanna weep to see identities and history restored to these pretty sets of things . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Maroli Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Rick you truly are amazing! I owe you one or for that matter at least ten. Cheers, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 There was only a single Feuerwerks-Major in April 1918, and 23 Captains including Bergner. VERY small but vital specialist corps of former NCOs. This one is a peach! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Maroli Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Rick, were you at the MAX? The seller had quite a nice collection of Imperial bars.~Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Nooooooooo showwwwwwwwwwws for Rickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkky. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Hi, I've just find the information : - Carl Eduard Medal 2nd class without swords awarded 416 times between 1911 and 1920- Decoration for Merit in Homeland awarded 1226 times between 1918-1919.Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Maroli Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Hi, I've just find the information : - Carl Eduard Medal 2nd class without swords awarded 416 times between 1911 and 1920- Decoration for Merit in Homeland awarded 1226 times between 1918-1919.ChristopheThank you for the research. ~ED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Ed, I am happy the bar stayed in the US. I went back the Friday to get it and it was gone. The seller had many nice bars. He was the only dealer selling good Imperial medal bars. The purchasing I did at the MAX was not my finest hour as I passed up a few really nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 who was the seller? <<<rubbing hands>>> :jumping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 What a tremendous bar. Ed, congratulations. As long as it doesn't cross some unspoken boundary of secrecy, I'm also interested in who sold the piece. I must have passed it at the MAX but I don't know where.Should anyone reading this post have something similar for sale, please pm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Maroli Posted November 9, 2008 Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 I think his name was Robert Scott?. I could be wrong in the visual overload that the MAX is.~Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Robert Scott is correct. I also bought a bar from him and he had many really nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komtur Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Robert Scott is correct. I also bought a bar from him and he had many really nice things.Thanks for this thread, I admire your diligent work to rename these great bars Yes, Robert Scott?s collection But sorry PaulC, some beauties of Robert reached the old Prussian homeland Best regards, Komtur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 But sorry PaulC, some beauties of Robert reached the old Prussian homeland Way before the MAX show, for those that could not go there. He had some really nice bars - and still enough for the MAX, I guess. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 :Cat-Scratch: Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RAO4 on "white black" ribbon! Discounting the 1 for 1848/49... 260 from 1864-67, according to Eric Ludvigsen's statistical study. MANY :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komtur Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RAO4 on "white black" ribbon! Discounting the 1 for 1848/49... 260 from 1864-67, according to Eric Ludvigsen's statistical study. MANY Oh, the work is still done I planned to count these in the Ordenslisten from 1848 to 1918 ...Regards, Komtur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Oops-- I missed 4 of the annual awards (total is the same) by YEAR:1849 = 11864 = 371865 = 111866 = 981867 = 1051868 = 11870 = 31871 = 1There were also1894 = 31895 = 1but those were surely for obscure colonial campaigns and would have been pebbled arms anyway-- so 256 to look for, not 260.No other awards of this type ribbon onr 4th Class up to the last published Ordensliste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Wow, never seen a photo of a spange with the RAO on Nichtkaempferband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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