Paul R Posted November 16, 2005 Posted November 16, 2005 (edited) The goal of this thread is to post photos of known fake Luftwaffe tabs. This is a set that I found on Ebay today. The major problem I have with this tab is the backing material. Also, the gull retention prongs do not look right to me. All and all, these are pretty good repros. If you have photos of reproduction/fake tabs, please post them here along with any comments.Warm regardsPaul Edited November 21, 2005 by Paul Reck
Paul R Posted November 16, 2005 Author Posted November 16, 2005 The most important picture in this case... Reverse
Paul R Posted November 19, 2005 Author Posted November 19, 2005 The vendor sent closeups after assuring me that these were real. Notice the clear silicone like substance on the reverse of the tab.. yeah riiiighhhhtttt Also notice the prongs. They are not like any originals I have ever seen.
Paul R Posted November 19, 2005 Author Posted November 19, 2005 Laurence,Thank you for posting these tabs. I saw them last on ebay as well. Are these the Pakistani made tabs?Paul
Paul R Posted November 22, 2005 Author Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Here is another set I received from a friend today. These repros very good... Edited November 24, 2005 by Paul Reck
Paul R Posted November 22, 2005 Author Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) ...until you look at the back.Notice the synthetic like backing. The inhand inspection reveals more... I dont know how to explain other than it does not feel or smell "right". When I bend the tab between my fingers(carefully), it flexes and feels as I would expect a nylon fabric to. Exam under a black light reveals a very bright electric blue glow. Edited November 22, 2005 by Paul Reck
Paul R Posted November 22, 2005 Author Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) There are other ways to identify this tab as a fake without the black light.Please note the course burlap like material covering the tab(the same material seen in the first example in this thread)... this is not typical to officer grade tabs(that I have seen anyway). Edited December 12, 2005 by Paul Reck
Paul R Posted November 22, 2005 Author Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Back... In this case, the stiffner material seems to be made of a whitish nylon like woven fiber. In my experience, smell is a part of the items we collect. I have notice a simular smell in my real cloth items. These tabs have no odor what so ever.Also, notice the lack of excess piping material bundled in the back of the tab like all the originals I know of.(as seen on the backs of all of the original tabs I have displayed in this thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3300 )Despite all of these factors, I feel that these tabs are fairly convincing. The method of embroidery and actual construction are very good. Edited December 12, 2005 by Paul Reck
Paul R Posted November 22, 2005 Author Posted November 22, 2005 Remeber, if you come across any Luftwaffe tabs you feel to be reproduction please post pics here!RegardsPaul
Paul R Posted November 22, 2005 Author Posted November 22, 2005 It is getting pretty scary. A year ago I would have bought these tabs thinking that they were the real thing. Now I see why specializing and exposure to that speciality are so important. RegardsPaul
Gene Posted November 22, 2005 Posted November 22, 2005 Gentlemen, please be advised that because an item glows it doesn't mean it's bad. I have a 100% original pair of Oberleutnant HG collar tabs that glow because they have been laundered. They came off of a Luftwaffe summer tunic that had been laundered and it too glowed like a Christmas tree.
Paul R Posted November 22, 2005 Author Posted November 22, 2005 (edited) Hi Gene!Great to see you!Thank you for your respected input on this set of tabs. From what I have learned, the black light technique should not be the sole factor in determining authenticity. The black light results simply added weight to what my feelings are based on the other factors I mentioned. What is your opinion on the other points mentioned? Do you feel that there is a chance for these tabs? I am still learning and am open to thoughts on this set! I received these for free as reproduction. If they turn out to be real... Very respectfullyPaul Reck Edited November 23, 2005 by Paul Reck
Gene Posted November 23, 2005 Posted November 23, 2005 Based on these two pics I cannot condemn them (the HG) as fakes; that said, there are construction problems that I would expect to not be there. I guess it's a tough call on these, but I am leaning 60-40 they're good.
Paul R Posted November 24, 2005 Author Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) Based upon a close exam, including a "burn test" of some loose material I am starting to doubt my original assessment. The burnt material smelled and burned like wool. Secondly, there is evidence of that excess piping that I mentioned earlier. (remains of stitching that would have bound the piping ends to the back of the tab). The only remaining question I have now is what the backing material could be. I am not able to safely remove a piece for a burn test. If anyone else has an idea how to identify material without destroying the tab, please let me know! At this point, I am willing to go with the assumption that these are now authentic until I learn otherwise. Please, if you find any other LW tabs you feel to be repro or fake please post them!Thank you Gene!RegardsPaul Edited November 24, 2005 by Paul Reck
Paul R Posted December 7, 2005 Author Posted December 7, 2005 (edited) I was actually looking at those just 20 seconds ago. Those gulls are just horrible. And the backs...Judging by the return policy, he must sincerely believe them to be real.RegardsPaulThank you for posting these! Edited December 7, 2005 by Paul Reck
Jos Le Conté Posted December 9, 2005 Posted December 9, 2005 I think it's very hard to judge these boards and patches just by the material,odd gulls etc..Era pics are showing very funny,odd and misshaped gulls,eagles etc..I think it has more to do with comparing loads of bullion stuff,backings etc.I've learned that you can go easily wrong by not liking the pattern,shape etc..In fact I like funny bullion cap and breast eagles.It's not a matter of black light and burntests,I hardly use these tools personaly,but studying many textbook items,but also the many variations etc..Bullion stuff is difficult,there're 1000nds of variations,some delicate,some rude,messy,simple,odd,funny,weird..It takes knowledge of material,the small coiled silver threads/wires etc..Some are obvious,some are difficult,some are unbelievable..I would not cast away the last Flak sets..,unless somebody is 100% sure they're fake.Jos.
Laurence Strong Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 (edited) Well here's my morning trawl for collar tabsFlak O/Leut these don't look bad Edited December 12, 2005 by Laurence Strong
Laurence Strong Posted December 12, 2005 Posted December 12, 2005 (edited) Another pair of Flak. No sure about this pair either Edited December 12, 2005 by Laurence Strong
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