Soviet 1920's order of the red banner

[Bob]

Just had this offered to me. Still awaiting better scans of the reverse and - keeping fingers crossed - of the award document. Serial number is 14210.

The Mongolian connection is what interests me here. Some questions:

- are these researchable?

- does these appear to be real/fake?

- what would be the reasonable price without and with document?

Thanks

Edited May 1, 2009 by Bob

[Bob]

[Ed_Haynes]

Also anxiously awaiting more information here! If it was to a Mongolian, he was a Biggie. More got the Soviet variety than the Russian Federation one.

However, as we all know, "Buy the medal, not the story". And always try to confirm with research. For this one, it won't be easy, probably impossible.

Our friend in New Jersey has one for $7400 and a (non-matching) certificate for $470. So . . . ????

[Bob]

I'm hopeful it'll turn out to be the real deal on the document. It's one of those difficult cases though where my guy is the "middle man".

Edited May 1, 2009 by Bob

[Bob]

I have excellent scans of the booklet. Is there an EXPERT (so not just a "curious bystander") who would be willing to discretely have a look at these scans offline?

Thanks,

Bob

[Bob]

Relatively clueless on Soviet awards but the Mongolia link is very interesting of course. More pics... have got some offline indications but anybody here on forum is welcome to comment.

[Bob]

[Bob]

name purposefully edited out

[Bob]

[Paul R]

I did not think that they were awarding that type this late.

[Bob]

[Bob]

[Bob]

[Bob]

[Bob]

[Bob]

[Bob]

[Bob]

a potentially very interesting scan still missing ( ) is a photograph of a high placed Russian person actually awarding it... seller supposedly has it, but no scan for me yet :rolleyes:

[Ed_Haynes]

I did not think that they were awarding that type this late.

But standard red award booklets did come that late, covering much earlier awards.

See, for example, the Lavrinovich group - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2326

Edited May 3, 2009 by Ed_Haynes

[Bob]

I did not think that they were awarding that type this late.

I'm no expert, but there's a 1930's and a 1940's date, no?

[Ed_Haynes]

Looks like the photo page has been ripped out. Tell the seller that the book is damaged and that the price needs to be reduced. Right . . . .

[Bob]

http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/soviet-...html#post103253

I suggest to move this thread to the fake section for now. Offered to have it reviewed (at my expense) by Alexei first but the seller was not interested in that (response: what if they replace it by a very good fake?). :speechless:

[Ed_Haynes]

http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/soviet-...html#post103253

I suggest to move this thread to the fake section for now. Offered to have it reviewed (at my expense) by Alexei first but the seller was not interested in that (response: what if they replace it by a very good fake?).

What evidence is there? I am not saying it is one way or the other, just I haven't seen any presuasive arguments (here or "elsewhere").

I do think there are some legitimate questions and issues. But I just don't see a convincing judgment.

Given the difficulties that would ensue in getting this to you, there would be no way for you ever to get it back, so I am somewhat sympathetic with the seller.

[Bob]

What evidence is there? I am not saying it is one way or the other, just I haven't seen any presuasive arguments (here or "elsewhere").

I do think there are some legitimate questions and issues. But I just don't see a convincing judgment.

Given the difficulties that would ensue in getting this to you, there would be no way for you ever to get it back, so I am somewhat sympathetic with the seller.

Perhaps, but why would a seller want an award back if it was a fake?

I guess in these cases it's very, very difficult to have "conclusive" conclusions... even more so without being able to present the award physically to an expert for review. The "story" beind the award is good, and perhaps I should just (try to) get the research anyway.

[Ed_Haynes]

Perhaps, but why would a seller want an award back if it was a fake?

Because he might not agree? I am not sure there is enough expertise out there on Russian ORBs in all their diverse manufacturing to put all one's trust in any single expert (who might know Soviet or Russian-manufactured badges well, but one probably made in Irkutsk . . . ???).

I guess in these cases it's very, very difficult to have "conclusive" conclusions... even more so without being able to present the award physically to an expert for review. The "story" beind the award is good, and perhaps I should just (try to) get the research anyway.

Yes, we may not know enough to say for sure. I'd be VERY surprised if any research from the Russian side would be possible. Who knows what is in the Mongolian archives. They are prettty good, I am told. If he is a Mongolian (rather than, for example, a Buriyat.)

Edited May 3, 2009 by Ed_Haynes