France Colonial and Overseas medal

Irish · December 23, 2010

Here is another Colonial Medal with Algerie bar. I have sketched the maker logo which appears on the reverse of the campaign bar. Included with the reverse photo. there is also a mark that looks like an oak leaf below this logo. The bottom rim of the Medal is stamped Argent with the oak leaf mark on either side. Can anyone tell me the time period of use for this Colonial Medal and bar. thanks John

Edited December 23, 2010 by Irish

Irish · December 23, 2010

Reverse. The maker logo appears on the reverse of the campaign bar on the gripper type clip

Edited December 23, 2010 by Irish

Veteran · December 23, 2010

Reverse. The maker logo appears on the reverse of the campaign bar on the gripper type clip

Hello Irish

This is a very nice lot of Medaille coloniale clasps.

The ALGERIE clasp with the 1rst type Medaille is a first period original made by the French Mint (Monnaie de Paris). I would say the nice type, but not scarce since it was awarded to a large number of recipients, including men who had served in Algeria since 1830, long before the establishment of the Medaille (1894).

The collection of bars you show in your first post looks quite all right. Most were commercially manufactured by the different firms who dealt in military insignia and medals. They were available for a variable number of years until they were sold out.

There is such a variety of makers and periods that a group like yours calls for slow and careful analysis. A very remarkable book was published recently : Patrick BINET : "La Médaille coloniale. Guide du collectionneur". It is frequently available on the French eBay for about 20 Euro. It would be just the answer for you.

Congratulation for these very nice clasps. You made a very good buy when you got the lot.

Hope this helps

Veteran

Irish · December 23, 2010

Veteran, Thank You so much for taking the time to look at these clasps. I had put them away years ago and had recently gotten them out after viewing this thread. I have heard of the book to which you refer and I will try and locate a copy for my reference use. I have always found French Colonial history and militaria fascinating. again thanks for the help. Best John

PKeating · May 4, 2011

Getting back to basics. This is a pre-1900 French Colonial Medal with the pre-1900 Paris Mint Cornucopia and ARGENT hallmarks on the rim. The suspension bar or bellière is the Mercier type and has been hallmarked twice. The ALGERIE clasp. The clapette clasp is also by Mercier and bears the boar's head and company hallmarks. This time capsule item has its original full length riband complete with “award” prongs. This medal is in superb condition and seems never to have been worn. It is hard to find 115-year-old French medals in this condition and one can only assume that it might have been sent posthumously to the recipient's family.

Veteran · May 4, 2011

Hi Prosper

A very nice medal you have here. It is indeed a Mercier finish and the clasp too if you could see the maker's hallmark.

Incidentally, the Mercier marks were first with M D C (the D in runing script) then M D C with a full D.

Your ribbon is beautifully preserved and may have been awarded posthumusly. But ribbons were supposed to be renewed every five years when worn and it may simply be a clean one.

I just love the old clasps which were changed to the simpler pinch-bar around 1913, since the number to be awarded made them very expensive as they were farmed out for finishing. The Paris Mint and the private makers all went to the pinch-bar reverse.

Regards

Paul

Irish · March 8, 2013

Hello Gentleman, have not posted in a while but wanted to refresh the Colonial Medal discussion.

At a recent Military show here in the U.S I was able to purchase a moderately sized collection of Colonial Medals and clasps. I am posting 4 of these today. There was a good variety of Jeton "Medal" types and clasps. The clasp I would like an opinion on is the last in my photo and that is "Centre Africain". My assumption is this is a little harder to find than other clasps so my question " is this clasp good? or are the reconstitution/reproductions of this clasp" ?? I have Mssr Binet's fine publication on the Colonial Medal and have studied it. The clasp looks OK from what I can see. Do I need to make a better photo? Thank You for any and all input.

Irish · March 8, 2013

Decided to slide the Centre Africain clasp off the ribbon to have a better look, I am always a little reluctant to do this for fear of damaging the ribbon.. The back of the plaque is marked with a 1 and star and a flourish on either side, the slide or pinch is umarked. This would correspond to a type described in Mssr Binet's book. However as I read further it sounds as though this mark might be from the early 1970's. Is that correct?

The Jeton is also marked with a 1 and flourish on either side as well as the intertwined G/L hallmark, however it does not have the star as the clasp did. Still would like to hear others opinions. Is my assumption that this clasp is a bit more scarce than others correct, or just wishful thinking? Is this a made for collector's piece. Many thanks.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Irish

Ulsterman · March 8, 2013

The Somali Coast medal looks new to moi. Is it?

Irish · March 8, 2013

The lighting might make it look that way, it is old and the ribbon is faded around the bar but not underneath, so I am assuming this ensemble is old. I slid the clasp off and checked the reverse, it is mark with a 2 and cornucopia's on each side, the pinch is unmarked. Is that mark Monnaie De paris

All of the medals in this collection look old and some are rimmed marked Argent .It was the clasps that had me wondering. This collection had a strip of Colonial medal ribbon with about 25 different clasps attached. I took those off today and checked the reverse for hallmarks. Many have marks of 1 or 2 and having cornucopia's on either side of the mark.

Thanks for the response

Edited March 9, 2013 by Irish

Bison · March 10, 2013

Decided to slide the Centre Africain clasp off the ribbon to have a better look, I am always a little reluctant to do this for fear of damaging the ribbon.. The back of the plaque is marked with a 1 and star and a flourish on either side, the slide or pinch is umarked. This would correspond to a type described in Mssr Binet's book. However as I read further it sounds as though this mark might be from the early 1970's. Is that correct?

The Jeton is also marked with a 1 and flourish on either side as well as the intertwined G/L hallmark, however it does not have the star as the clasp did. Still would like to hear others opinions. Is my assumption that this clasp is a bit more scarce than others correct, or just wishful thinking? Is this a made for collector's piece. Many thanks.

The mark with a cornucopia +1+* is definitly after 1973. This mark indicates silver at .925, which became legal after 1973.

This clasp is still for sale for collectors at the shop of the Monnaie de Paris. It is not scarce.

A genuine clasp, i.e. made in ca 1902, should have a cornucopia (or two), with or without a "1" which stands for silver .950. This one is scarce.

Irish · March 10, 2013

Thank you, having thought about this date of 1973, the bar would have to be for collectors as It is doubtful if any of the participants who were authorized wear of this bar would have still been alive in 1973 or later. Are all clasps with the 1* type marking considered collectors pieces. Should all pieces marked just 1 or 2 (no star) and cornucopia's be considered post WW2?

Odulf · March 10, 2013

For this matter I would advice the ecxellent book, which was published last year, "La Médaille coloniale - Guide du collectionneur" by Patrick Binet.

Listing all types of all medals and bars (with detailed photos and markings).

Available from:

PBCO Editions

www.http://editions.pb-co.fr

Edited March 10, 2013 by Odulf

Irish · March 11, 2013

Thank you Odulf, I have Msr Binet's Book and am studying it. The language translation slow's me a little. but it has been very helpful. I had not been a collector of the Colonial Medal however recently a few accumulations have been offered to me here in the U.S. I am trying to learn as much on the topic as possible. I have always found Frecnh Colonial history interesting and as a result am drawn to the medal and its campaign bars.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Irish

Odulf · March 11, 2013

Thank you Odulf, I have Msr Binet's Book and am studying it. The language translation slow's me a little. but it has been very helpful. I had not been a colector of the Colonial Medal however recently a few accumulations have been offered to me here in the U.S. I am trying to learn as much on the topic as possible. I have always found Frecnh Colonial history interesting and as a result am drawn to the medal and its campaign bars.

Thank you for your comment, I keep a representative collection of French campaign medals, with a preference for the Médaille Coloniale and it's successor, the Médaille d'Outre Mer, and bars, because it represents France as a very busy international force for a long time.

The "trouble" with French medals is that there is no "Government Issue" (so to say) and many contemporary and modern producers can/could make bars to the medal without hesitation. When you are not bothered by the fetish of "originality" you can build a fine selection of both medals and bars; when you dive into the nitty-gritties of authenticity you could end up with a headache and a lot of hassle. So I take a bar for what it is, some of my bars are contemporary and some date from a later period. To me it is only a trigger to dig deeper into the rich details of French colonial actions.

It gets confusing when you find bars to these medals on other medals, which often happens, for (un) obvious reasons. This all has to do with the French regulations about medals and the not maintained principles of copyrights and the sometimes very personal ideas of ex-servicemen about extpressing the details of their career and service in their medals.

Irish · March 11, 2013

Many thanks for that good common sense advice. I do have a tendency to skitter off into "miniscule detail" at times and you are correct, it does leave one frustrated. As you aptly put it " a trigger to dig deeper" , that is what really brings the enjoyment. I will take that advice and move forward with my Colonial Medal pursuits. Best John Kelly

Irish · March 16, 2013

Here is an addition to my now growing Colonial Medal collection. A bar of the type Arthus Bertrand, with what looks to be an engraved Fezzan-Tripolitaine. The planchet is Lemaire hallmarked and reversed marked with a 1 and cornucopia. I am still struggling to nail down the planchet makers, but am working on it. If someone recognizes this maker please let me know. Thanks John

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Edited March 16, 2013 by Irish

ralstona · November 7, 2013

Colonial Medal Award document to my great-grandfather. This was for the Maroc clasp, he was also entitled to the Sahara clasp. He was serving at the time with 4e REI. He was a Sergeant-Fourrier at the time.

Art

Edited November 7, 2013 by ralstona

Bison · November 8, 2013

The planchet is Lemaire hallmarked and reversed marked with a 1 and cornucopia. I am still struggling to nail down the planchet makers, but am working on it. If someone recognizes this maker please let me know.

The "Bible" of the Colonial Medal is here : http://editions.pb-co.fr/catalogueCollections.html

Cheers

Bison

Irish · November 8, 2013

Art, the document is great particularly nice since it is family.

Thanks Bison, I have a copy of the book. Hope to some day have an English version, however in the meantime it is still very helpful

Best

Jack

AdrianC · November 27, 2019

Confirmation/Help requested? Ref attached picture of Colonel VICTOR MARCEL LABORDE I would like confirmation or otherwise of the highlighted medal Morocco Commemorative Medal (1909)?

Thank you for looking.