Les Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Bad. Really bad.... A combatant award with a non-combatant EKII. Who does he think he's fooling?"02-305 TWO-PLACE MEDAL BAR. This is a two-place medal bar. Often, two-place medal bars can be rather mundane. This one, my dear readers, is VERY special, as you will see! It includes the following two decorations. *Golden Military Merit Cross - Prussia (GMMC). The GMMC was THE highest award that could be given to an enlisted man/NCO. A Military Merit Cross in Silver was also awarded for bravery. The GMMC is often referred to as the "Enlisted Man?s Blue Max." It was awarded in VERY limited numbers. This is not an award example, but one that was purchased privately for this medal bar. *1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class for Non Combatants. The 1914 Iron Cross was awarded in two varieties. One was for Combatants, where the ribbon?s primary color is black, with smaller white stripes. The version for Non Combatants is just the opposite. White is the predominant color, with thinner black stripes.This is a very unusual combination with the GMMC and the 1914 2nd Class for Non Combatants."Les
Les Posted June 21, 2009 Author Posted June 21, 2009 For what it's worth (not much), the reverse. Les
saschaw Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 However, the bar itself does not look bad. I wonder what those white-black ribbons actually are for in this combination as I have a matching buttonaire. That is not faded W?rttemberg yellow, is it?!
Wild Card Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 (edited) Bad. Really bad.... A combatant award with a non-combatant EKII. Who does he think he's fooling? This one, my dear readers, is VERY special, as you will see! VERY special... VERY SPECIAL? Indeed,let us hope that it's one of a kind. :shame: :shame: Edited June 21, 2009 by Wild Card
Guest Rick Research Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Actually, a Tragic Sales Schtick Mistake has been made here. The Iron Cross had primacy of place. This is ACTUALLY a "mundane" EK2 and a Spangenstuck GMVK on "white-black" ribbon.Immeasurably rarer.Immeasurably. Simply by hooking the wrong crosses on the wrong hooks...why, that's 10% of what COULD have been charged--and apparently would still have been paid. IMMEASURABLY rarer. You can quote me on that. :catjava:
Guest Rick Research Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 "immeasurable": "incapable of being measured."How "rare" is THAT?
TacHel Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 Question for you Rick...I have a spangenst?ck like that... They worth anything?
Daniel Cole Posted June 21, 2009 Posted June 21, 2009 I think thank Golden Military Merit cross is a $2.00 Gode piece. I had one once. Note how the suspension is "twisted". Mine was exactly like that. More "original" or period Spange pieces have a more professional looking suspension piece. I think this is one of the most expensive 1914 EK2s ever sold!
saschaw Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Daniel's absolutely right on both "Spangenst?cke" shown here.
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 The dealer in question is supplied by "pickers" in germany. I sometimes have the feeling he relies on their descriptions and may be getting screwed by them.
Guest Rick Research Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 Uh... not as bad as the people paying retail markup!!!! I have NEVER been able to understand how somebody who gets museum-grade items passing through all the time can remain not only so PROFOUNDLY ignorant-- but get other people to pay Retail Plus Plus Plus on the basis of "expertise" which is CRINGINGLY deficient.There is a TOTAL lack of "learning curve" here which can only be explained as utter indifference--"As long as it sells, somebody will buy it...." :banger:
TacHel Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I think thank Golden Military Merit cross is a $2.00 Gode piece. I had one once. Note how the suspension is "twisted". Mine was exactly like that. More "original" or period Spange pieces have a more professional looking suspension piece. I think this is one of the most expensive 1914 EK2s ever sold!I doubt it's from G?de, the quality is too high for a G?de piece. I've held G?de pieces and they cry out "crap", this piece, if it wasn't for the flaws in the suspension and top of the crown would be near impossible to tell apart from the real thing.I've also seen an EXACT duplicate of mine for sale from a "guru" dealer in Germany who was asking 250 EURO. He was (and still might be) trying to pass it off as a piece issued post November 1918 by the Prussian Awards Committee who supposedly kept issuing awards (that were recommended during the war) after the end of the war . I can't even remember how long I've had this at the bottom of a drawer... Years... And back it goes! :P
Stogieman Posted June 22, 2009 Posted June 22, 2009 I think the bar is fine, it just has mis-placed medals/bad cross.... Whatever it was, before whomever it was that sold it to Ken.... it must have been interesting..I concur with Boonzie's comment.... Ken trusts the folks selling to him to be "on the square"..... unfortunately, they are not always.... and Ken gets taken advantage of. He turns up some incredible pieces.... you just have to know what you are looking at...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Too bad HE doesn't. Interesting self image as a "Professional Dealer." Particularly one able to spin out verbiage like he's being paid by the word-- which in an unfortunate way, actually he is.We live, alas, in an Age Of Incompetence.
saschaw Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 I doubt it's from G?de, the quality is too high for a G?de piece. I've held G?de pieces and they cry out "crap", this piece, if it wasn't for the flaws in the suspension and top of the crown would be near impossible to tell apart from the real thing.Have you ever held a G?de MVK?! I think I still have one of those, with it's "certificate". Will scan and show later... those ARE G?de, no matter what dealers try to sell them as Spangenst?cke or post-1918 issues. ;)
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 Too bad HE doesn't. Interesting self image as a "Professional Dealer." Particularly one able to spin out verbiage like he's being paid by the word-- which in an unfortunate way, actually he is.We live, alas, in an Age Of Incompetence.Agreed, no excuse for the way its done. the mark up is obscene, the controls minimal, but I think his errors are due to ignorance as opposed to bad intent.
Beau Newman Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 FYI - medalnet has an excellent article on his website on this award and points out the small flaw in the last "T" of "VERDIENST" that is seen on wartime issue pieces.
Paul C Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 While I agree the medal combination does not make much sense - do not be to quick to judge the ribbon combination. I did a post about 18 month ago where I shows an entry in the 1918 Prussian State and Court Handbook in which a person had 2 EK2's.
Guest Rick Research Posted June 23, 2009 Posted June 23, 2009 By mistake. Never discount plain old goofs in period sources. Heiko just posted a photo of Hauptmann dR von Salisch wearing the "wrong" class of Italian Crown Order... according to period sources."errors are due to ignorance"... OK. How many decades as a Full Time Professional Dealer does it take to "learn?"... Just wondering.
Ulsterman Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 "immeasurable": "incapable of being measured."How "rare" is THAT? ...so, I think I just learned something new; am i reading this correctly to mean that there was such a thing as a noncombatant's GMVK??? ...issued in 1914-19?
Guest Rick Research Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 How can one measure 0? I'm surprised the ever popular "authentic" wasn't used. "Authentic" = "looks like an original if you don't know any better."
TacHel Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 How can one measure 0? I'm surprised the ever popular "authentic" wasn't used. "Authentic" = "looks like an original if you don't know any better." :lol:
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