How Many Medals...

[Chris Boonzaier]

How many medals can one realistically expect to grace the chest of a Prussion LT?

I have bought a M15 jacket (not here yet) with original loops to it... but I assume that the shoulder boards dont really go with it. It has LT Pionier boards, loops for what looks to be the Turkish "red star" on the right, EK1, wound and what must be a 4-5 medal bar.

I tghink the loops are original and not the boards.... how many LTs would have that many medals, especially prussinas!

[Ulsterman]

Depends on the year doesn't it?

EK2,EH ribbon, MAYBE, rarely an Austrian and/or Bulgarian decoration and a state Order of some sort. Pioneers got around a bit more and if he was in Romania or the East, I wouldn't be surprised to see an Austrian Military Merit Order on the bar.

If it has a wound badge its Summer, 1918 +

However, if its Reichsheer (1921+) -a few commemoratives might well pepper the mix....or a Silesian Eagle or Baltic cross ribbon.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I am guessing 17-18.

It could be that the 2 pin backs are EK1 and "Something" as opposed to EK1 and wound badge.

It becomes a question... which do not belong to the jacket, the loops or shoulder boards (as I think it unlikely that a Lt had so much on his chest).

I am pretty confident that the loops are original to the piece (will show them when the piece arrives, they are a bit confusing)

Best

Chris

[HeikoGrusdat]

......I have seen Leutnants (not personally of course.............. ) with 6 , 7 and 8 awards on the bar in 1918 !!! speacial units earn special bling-bling.... some of them were drivers of high officers or commanders of automobil units (yes - Leutnants) with many awards and orders - why not a Pionier as well if he was at the right time in the right position......

[Guest Rick Research]

Remember: wartime uniforms were worn by retired officers well into the 1930s when many of them got new ones. :catjava:

[Noor]

......I have seen Leutnants (not personally of course.............. ) with 6 , 7 and 8 awards on the bar in 1918 !!! speacial units earn special bling-bling.... some of them were drivers of high officers or commanders of automobil units (yes - Leutnants) with many awards and orders - why not a Pionier as well if he was at the right time in the right position......

Heiko tought about the "bling-bling" automobile leatnant.... posted here many times before but whay not once more...

Leutnant d.R. Gerhard Sayffaerth

[VtwinVince]

Holy crow Timo, what's the story behind that guy? Twenty decorations is almost unbelievable.

[HeikoGrusdat]

........ he had much more than 20 awards....... but this bar dates from 1940.......... but if you go through the bar he had some awards in 1918 + wound badge + EK1 + + + + .... and he was as Leutnant commander of a "Automobil-Kolonne" in ww1........

[Deruelle]

Hi Chris,

Of course, all depends of the bravery of your man. An another example : Leutnant d. L Ernst Hischmann who received 5 medals during the War. I have shown the ribbon bar but have a look. I think that five or six ribbons for a single lieutenant is very good. If he had more he was probably Adjudant of a Prince and then it could justify a lot of awards. And even that in the RL 1914 there is not a lof officers with more than 5 medals before the war with the grade of lieutenant.

Christophe

[saschaw]

An another example : Leutnant d. L Ernst Hischmann who received 5 medals during the War.

He actually had six, with five on the bar: don't forget his EK1.

One more possibility for a Leutnant with some more awards is a bumped-up Ex-NCO who has some more years of service...

[Chris Boonzaier]

OK, here are the loops...

I am not sure what the horizontal loop along the bottom is there for....

I am guessing the shoulder boards (slip on types) are not original to the piece and that this may actually have been from a higher ranking officer than a simple LT.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah. You have come to the right place, Grasshoppa.

The ORIGINAL closely space two loops indicate the original FIRST war ribbon bar. The far apart outer ones indicate where, as I suspected, he was wearing 1930s medal bar awards on the old suit.

Horizontal loop is for one of these:

Looks like he had a 3 ribbon bar (with one of these) and during the First war, sometimes slipped his full sized one on to wear, just like his Eastern Front pals did.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I will check the threadfs when I get home to see if it was enlarged postwar.

I thought it was the closer loops for the ribbon bar and the further apard ones for the medal bar.

The Right chest has 2 loops that ould fit a BBco Gallipoli Star perfectly.

Unfortunately there is no name to the tunic, and even the boards may or may not belong...

[Guest Rick Research]

I can see that the two close together lops match (ribbon bar)... the one closest to the tunic opening was added next (there probably for the original First war or 1920s medal bar) while the one closest to the armpit matches the size and thickness of none of the other loops.

This was his Dressed For Veterans Events outfit, worn for a VERY long time.