Prins Dschero Khan - US special forces?

[Herr General]

This person lives in the Netherlands. Claiming to be a Mongolian Prince, ex US special forces and Dutch army. Professor in China, Martial arts specialist, etc etc

See google for more info. How likely are his medals?

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahem.

As far as I know, the Silver Star never has a combat valor "V" device since it is ONLY granted for combat valor. Meanwhile he is not wearing any campaign stars on his U.S. Vietnam Campaign Medal nor the correct "1960-" date riband on his South Vietnamese Campaign star, which is worn incorrectly ahead of his SV decoration.

[Doc]

Interesting that his decoration bars in the two pictures do not match. Nor do all the skills badges. I don't think the US has a gold colored Master Parachutist Badge, though I guess some other country could.

Google searches on him don't give very much hard information, but it is obvious that if he has done all he claims, then he did not serve in the Special Forces for very long. There just aren't enough years there. Let's see, he fought the Japanese in WW2 (since he was apparently born in 1928, he would have been pretty young). Then he fought in Korea as part of the Dutch Army assigned to the US Army. Sometime he supposedly served in the Special Forces (one thing I found on the web said he did that in 1948, which would have been hard, since the US Special Forces were formed in the early 1960s, IIRC), and he wears a bunch of VN ribbons. He supposedly also worked for the CIA and the German Border Police. And on top of that, he has supposedly studied and now teaches many different styles of martial arts.

I guess it is possible, but I'm real suspicious. I'd like to see a real biography (with dates) and a good closeup of some of those pictures of ribbons. The ribbons certainly seem out of order, and there may be some errors in them which I won't comment on without a better picture. He doesn't look 81 to me. Doc

Edited November 3, 2009 by Doc

[Herman]

This guy is not real.

I just googled him in Dutch and read a lengthy story which he told a Dutch reporter.

Apparently he was interned in a boycamp by the Japanese. Fought in the KNIL (Dutch East Indian Army) from 1945 to 1950. (He doesn't wear his Dutch campaign medal though). Got drafted in the Dutch Army in the Netherlands in 1952, went to Korea. Fought there in the Dutch bataillon got back in 1954 with a heavy interest in martial arts. Served till around 1964 in the Dutch Army (he wears a Bronze Dutch Service medal which means 12 years of service. Left the Dutch Army and startedhis own martial arts sportsschool.

He doesn't mention his US Special Forces tour(s) in Vietnam, but if he did, he picked up a lot of medals in a short time.

I personally think he is a wannabee with maybe, maybe some truth in its core, but not much i recon. In the same Dutch article he mentions that he participated in the Nijmegen 4 days marches 8 times. That ribbon can be worn in the Dutch Army and guess what. I can't see it in both pictures. He does wear a Dutch Expert badge with 2 times the same qualification letters PM. PM is 'pistoolmitrailleur' which means submachinegun.

Furthermore the remarks about the US jumpwings made earlier in this topic are correct. Gold US Army jumpwings and freefall wings do not exist. The V on the Silver star is also not correct.

I think that his fantasy got away with him and that his military badges collection ended at his chest in the end, but maybe i'm wrong and turning into an old nagging fart.

Cheers

Herman

[Ulsterman]

Maybe.....in 1960/61 when the US special forces training centers were expanded one Paul Vann recruited several martial arts experts to train recruits. In those days martial arts was almost unheard of and the great karate/Kung Fu/ TaikwanDo boom in the USA didn't happen until the late 1960s/ 1970s. Paul Vann was a CIA/army liaison officer. he is the central character of "A Bright and Shining Lie".

My family does TaikwanDo (those of you who are my friends on facebook can see me getting my butt kicked in the photos section). Our Grandmaster, Grandmaster Lee is now 81 (same age as Khan), looks younger than me and can do 1000 (!) push ups at a time.

Grandmaster Lee began his training as a Korean conscript into the Imperial Japanese army, deserted when the Russians invaded and later fought in the Korean war.

He too was employed from 1965-1970 by the US army....as a martial arts instructor.

I think it is quite possible that Mr. Khan there is a puffed wannabee, but he may also be one of the original army/CIA martial arts trainers. That would make sense.

Any chance one of our members can meet and talk to him?

[Lance O. Adams]

The unapproved MACVSOG Command and Control Central (CCC) bomburst patch was never worn in that manner (as a SSI). Also although it is very hard to tell from the pic the 1st SF DI on the beret flash looks to be unofficial as well. Appears to have a tab or arc? My thoughts only .....

[W McSwiggan]

Disregard this reply as originally stated - see Doc's correct call in following reply.

Way to be Doc!

Hate leaving bogus information out there for propagation!

Erwin

Edited November 5, 2009 by W McSwiggan

[Doc]

Combat Infantryman's Badge (Second Award) is clearly bogus.

In order to be awarded this award during the time he claims service, his first award would have required qualifying service in the Korean War. Per information above he was neither assigned or attached to a US unit during that conflict as required by regulation.

Actually, that was my first thought, but then I remembered that some Dutch and Belgian units were actually assigned to US units (e.g. the Belgians to the 3rd ID). If he was in the Dutch Army then, he might have legitimately gotten it for the Korean War. Doc

[W McSwiggan]

Excellent point Doc - Opened mouth-inserted foot on that one. Research before you leap is normally my motto and I blew that one!

http://www.korean-war.com/

Allow me to offer (in penance) the above link to a nice site addressing these things.

Per that site, THE NETHERLANDS DETACHMENT UNITED NATIONS (NDVN) was never larger than a battalion (-) necessitating reinforcement with KATUSA to fill to battalion strength. This unit was assigned to the 38th U.S. Infantry Regiment "Rock of the Maine", 2nd "Indianhead" US Infantry Division after arriving in Korea.

Makes CIB a possibility and I stand corrected - thanks Doc.

Rufus

Actually, that was my first thought, but then I remembered that some Dutch and Belgian units were actually assigned to US units (e.g. the Belgians to the 3rd ID). If he was in the Dutch Army then, he might have legitimately gotten it for the Korean War. Doc

[Herman]

Members of the Dutch Infantry Bataillon were awarded the US Combat Infantryman Badge. They were indeed serving as part of the 38th Infantry Regiment of the 2nd US Infantry Division in Korea from 1951-1953. I have seen dozens and dozens of our Korean veterans wearing them and i have seen copies of the 38th IR Regimental Orders awarding CIBs to members of the Dutch Bataillon. Surviving Dutch veterans of the Korean War served till the mid eighties in the Dutch army.

The Dutch also got awarded some Silver Stars, Legions of Merit, Bronze Stars and Purple Hearts.

In 2007 a whole Dutch Para Company got awarded the US CIB again service in South Afghanistan. They were the first Dutch soldiers since Korea.

Said all that . How did the Prince got his star on the CIB for the second award ?!?!? Vietnam ?!?!? And how did he get his US freefall wing. This wing was instituted when he was retired....

Herman

Edited December 29, 2009 by Herman

[ErikMuller]

In 2007 a whole Dutch Para Company got awarded the US CIB again service in South Afghanistan. They were the first Dutch soldiers since Korea.

Herman

Not quite correct Herman. In the Bosnian conflict some CIB's were awarded to Dutch NATO-troops which went on patrol with US Recon Units. They were, however, not allowed to wear the badge by the Dutch Ministry of Defence since we (the Dutch) were in involved in a peacekeeping mission and not in 'Combat'.

Edited December 31, 2009 by ErikMuller

[Herman]

Thanks Erik,

didn't know that.

There are some Dutch soldiers who claim they got a CIB in Iraq, but that is questionable. See the Dutch onderscheidingenforum for that.

regards

Herman

[ErikMuller]

I know some KMar-personnel received either the CIB or the CAB in Iraq. I also know one KMar-Sergeant who received the U.S.M.C. Combat Action Ribbon.

[Bob]

http://fr.truveo.com/het-bloed-van-genghis-khan-21102007/id/3598738166

A dutch language documentary... which certainly appears to indicate his story may be legit

[Bob]

around 42 minutes he's at a dutch korea veterans meeting... one of them says they were in korea together, he says that the other vet was awarded a bronze star

[IrishGunner]

If it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't true. :whistle:

[Hugh]

The ribbons look like a jumble sale. For a guy who wears them at his age on his civilian clothes, you're think he'd make a little effort to get them right. It makes you skeptical.

[Bob]

If it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't true.

I'm not going to rush to judgement on this. The story is an interesting one, he was born in mongolia (supposedly) and his parents were killed by the chines, he fled (helped by a monk) to indonesia as a young boy and when the japanese arrived there he fled again eventually winding up in the netherlands.

The documentary shows him being received by the mongolian president (!) a few years ago... and there's quite some martial arts footage in the documentary as well. Whatever the truth, it sounds like an interesting story.

[IrishGunner]

Whatever the truth, it sounds like an interesting story.

Bob, for certain there is an interesting story here - and maybe an original kernel of truth or two. But I sincerely doubt this fellow was officially in the US Special Forces - his insignia and ribbons are completely bogus in this regard; IMHO. He may have associated with a few and maybe even taught martial arts to a few. But I've known many old Green Berets in my day and the way he's wearing "stuff" just doesn't ring true.

[Herr General]

around 42 minutes he's at a dutch korea veterans meeting... one of them says they were in korea together, he says that the other vet was awarded a bronze star

The other vet is Mr Tromp. He received the Bronze Star! See onderscheidingen.nl

Edited October 9, 2010 by Herr General

[Herr General]

http://www.inhorst.nl/nieuws/algemeen/horst/4153/dschero-khan-reikt-mongoolse-onderscheiding-uit-video.html

The Prince giving out his own medals

See pictures for his medalbar!

[Chris Boonzaier]

German Paratroop beret worn by him on the link?!?!?!?

[Bob]

From the first video link with the documentary and some online sources I got the impression that he was affiliated with various foreign military units in a training/support role but was never formally a member. E.g. various photographs shown in the documentary do give the impression he was in Korea, Vietnam, etc. And that he is just a bit liberal (but probably without ill intent) in wearing various unit badges etc.

The guys story is pretty amazing (again, even if some of it is over the top)

[IrishGunner]

While "killing time" in the Vienna airport (gotta love free internet wifi access!), I did a few Google searches on our friend - nothing conclusive came to my notice. However, I did read several threads in some martial arts forums about this fellow; they were all doubting his fighting arts creds.

My vote remains: charlatan

Edited October 10, 2010 by IrishGunner

[Herman]

http://www.inhorst.n...-uit-video.html

The Prince giving out his own medals

See pictures for his medalbar!

Sigh......... if i look at the pictures of him in this topic i can only sigh. Apart from all his badges, pins, wings and other goodies. In picture 4 he starts with his full size Dutch medals. Then a UN Korea medal, 2 Korean medals, than back to his Dutch sportsmedals. (He wears two variations of the same NOC / NSF medal. And again no Nijmegen medal). Row two starts with his US medals- Slver star, Bronze star, a Vietnamese Gallantry medal, back to the US Vietnam campaign medal, then back to the Vietnamese Vietnam campaign medal and fnally ending with 2 medals of which the last one looks like a UN medal of wich i do not recognize the ribbon.

I repeat my earlier conclusions. This is over the top, incorrect and a lot of added fantasy.

Herman