France The national defence medal (France)

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here are mine.

Only ting of note is the styles of bars.

There is the overseas assistance missions bar and the foreign legion one. What I never understood was... the REP also got the Troupe Aeroporte bar, the 3rd infantry regt got the Infantry bar on their medal, but the 2nd infantry regiment never got the infantry bar due to some strange technicality.

[Chris Boonzaier]

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[Chris Boonzaier]

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[Chris Boonzaier]

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[Dave Danner]

The one thing I have of note is the different styles of medal. I also have a silver version in the second style, but I don't have a scan of it.

[Chris Boonzaier]

That one on the right is vastly superior. I am trying to find one to put on my bar. Do you think it is an older version or simply a very big variation from a different maker?

[Christophe]

En 1982, several different models were for sale, from different makers. This is no more the case today, as I believe these casts have been seized by the French State.

The one on the right was one of these "private" medals.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

En 1982, several different models were for sale, from different makers. This is no more the case today, as I believe these casts have been seized by the French State.

The one on the right was one of these "private" medals.

Ch.

Very interesting ! So the government created a monopoly situation for the Paris Mint and favouring the uglier designed medal ... how kind of them

Here's a couple more pictures, type I silver and type II gold classes ...

[attachmentid=19376] [attachmentid=19377]

[Christophe]

Very interesting ! So the government created a monopoly situation for the Paris Mint and favouring the uglier designed medal ... how kind of them

(...)

No. In fact I believe the private makers can still (and still) produce the medal... but only according to the official design. That seems logical, after all.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

What I never understood was... the REP also got the Troupe Aeroporte bar, the 3rd infantry regt got the Infantry bar on their medal, but the 2nd infantry regiment never got the infantry bar due to some strange technicality.

I've never got the gist about these bars either : there are the "geographic ones" (the Missions d'Assistance Ext?rieure being one of those) and there are the ones for "specialisation" (e.g. Troupes Aeropor?es, Infanterie, etc.). Whereas it's easy to see what the first ones are for, I have no idea what constitutes the requirements for the "specialisation" bars. Would all members of a unit qualify at the same time or is there a points system for each member to reach before he receives the bar or ... or ... ?

From "Guide Pratique des D?corations Fran?aises Actuelles" :

The 'M?daille de la D?fense Nationale' rewards particularly honourable services rendered by military personnel during their participation in operational activities or the army's operational preparation as well as for interventions on behalf of the population.

The Bronze class is awarded for 6 months of service AND 90 points (???) - Silver class for 5 years and 600 points (and after having received the bronze class min. 2 years before) - Gold class for 10 years and 800 points (silver class min. 2 years earlier).

How does a soldier get these points and would these have something to do with the specialist bars ?

Edited December 17, 2005 by Hendrik

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, please, can anyone explain this medal. There was an effort, only partially successful, in the JOMSA some time back and while it sparked my interest it untimately just confused me more. We need more on French medals! Please....

[Chris Boonzaier]

I never understood the points system. Found it pretty stupid to have the criteria based on Points AND time served.

You have a regular count of points, extra ones coming for extra duties, overseas postings, even things like helicopter flights apparently count in some way.

A guy I joined with worked in the comapny office, he said with all our opex we had almost enough for the gold after less than 5 years, but could not get it because of lack of time served.

So, you can gather lots of points for active service, but this will not help you advance because the time served is also important.

You can also loose the medal if you are a bad boy. Occasionaly you see guys with the outre mer but not with this, usually they hae had it taken away.

The bars are not any award, they are more or less just decorative, so you can tell where the guy served. In the legion you automatically get it with the legion bar, if you have been on an overseas operation in the qualifying time the missions bar as well. if you were in the 3rd Infantry regiment you get the infantry bar at the same time.

If you are in the 2nd Infantry regiment you dont get the infantry bar. The guys of the 2nd USED to get the bar, but then the regt got APCs and theyare technically no longer an infantry regiment, they are a motorised infantry regiment... for which there is no special bar.

I guess there is a guy in an office somewhere who DOES understand it all

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, Chris, there is probably a guy somewhere who understands it, a, one!

[Dave Danner]

In the other thread where these medals came up a few months' back, I provided a link to the latest versions of the regulations governing the medal.

http://www.bo.sga.defense.gouv.fr/pdf/2004...6/6054-6076.pdf

http://www.bo.sga.defense.gouv.fr/pdf/2005...2/2953-2975.pdf

[Hendrik]

http://www.bo.sga.defense.gouv.fr/pdf/2004...6/6054-6076.pdf

http://www.bo.sga.defense.gouv.fr/pdf/2005...2/2953-2975.pdf

Dave,

Thanks for those : very detailed info on the points' system and very useful !

[Michael Johnson]

So, you can gather lots of points for active service, but this will not help you advance because the time served is also important.

Chris, it makes perfectly good sense to me. After all, you don't want to disadvantage all those Headquarters types who never get into the field to earn points. So we'll let the sharp-end guys get a slight edge, but not too much of one.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Chris, it makes perfectly good sense to me. After all, you don't want to disadvantage all those Headquarters types who never get into the field to earn points. So we'll let the sharp-end guys get a slight edge, but not too much of one.

Well, I guess the points system is not that great either.

"""The Bronze class is awarded for 6 months of service AND 90 points (???) - Silver class for 5 years and 600 points (and after having received the bronze class min. 2 years before) - Gold class for 10 years and 800 points (silver class min. 2 years earlier)."""

If you count 22 months Operations outside of France you get over 2000 points for that alone, (excluding all other calculations like Helicopter rides and whatever else gets you points), but that is because you get 3 points a day whether you are in Kinshasa or Bangui while on ops, and that be 2 very different places.

I think the bronze one looks better anyway, So there !

[Jacques]

here is the gold class. I don't remember the number of points, but I got it in 1998. I'm just waiting for the "ordre national du m?rite" now.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Interesting to see the mix of bar types on the DN.

In 50 years a collector will say "An officer would NEVER have done that!! They would have had matching bars!!" :-))

[Michael Johnson]

En 1982, several different models were for sale, from different makers. This is no more the case today, as I believe these casts have been seized by the French State.

The one on the right was one of these "private" medals.

Ch.

And on eBay there is very spirited bidding for them.

[Michael Johnson]

[attachmentid=27566]

[attachmentid=27567]

From my small collection I have three types:

a. The official (I have two of these, one with less wear to the plating than the other)

b. The second type already displayed here, with the wall behind. Mine is gold, and with the plating does not look as good as the bronze and silver shown here. The reverse is distinctly crude compared to even the official.

c. This one (2 REI judging by the lack of an Infanterie bar) is very similar to the official, but lacks the plating. The reverse is more detailed than either of the other two issues.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Michael Johnson

[Michael Johnson]

[attachmentid=27569]

And a detail of the reverse of Type C. Note the finer detail on the inside of the bonnet.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Michael Johnson

[ErikMuller]

here is the gold class. I don't remember the number of points, but I got it in 1998. I'm just waiting for the "ordre national du m?rite" now.

Does anybody notices the unregular fixation of the Deutsche Sportabzeichen? Wonder if that is self-made or bought like that. I actually thought of making a ring suspension on my own badge since we aren't allowed to wear them as a badge on our uniform.

[Michael Johnson]

That one on the right is vastly superior. I am trying to find one to put on my bar. Do you think it is an older version or simply a very big variation from a different maker?

Here it is, Chris!

http://cgi.ebay.ca/medaille-defense-nation...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I missed the auction in the end... but did nail one this week.....