Hanseatic medalbars

[Stogieman]

Hi Tom, really like that little enameled ribbon pair!

[Mike Dwyer]

Hi Mike,

I can't reply to your question, since I do not have the necessary reference books with Wedding's data, but I can show you the Admiral wearing a previous medal bar (see many 20ies veterans' decorations) with already the British Order of St. Michael & St. George.

Ciao,

Claudio

Claudio,

Thanks for the reply. Very, very nice photo too!

[Bob Hunter]

Great photo Claudio! That has got to be the mother of all frack bars!

[HeikoGrusdat]

thanks Claudio for Weddings photo, I have one wearing the bar from the auction but this one is even bigger... great picture!!!

[Stogieman]

Wedding's bar is not mounted as a "Frack" in this PK..... it's just tilted to fit!

[Bob Hunter]

Still, a pretty biggun'

[Ed_Haynes]

A quick look in the handy-dandy (but immensely flawed and cranky) online London Gazette shows an honorary C.M.G. to "Lieutenant Friedrich Wilhelm Hermann Karl Wedding" in the Birthday Honours List for 3 June 1902. There would surely be a recommendation in the National Archives (nee Public Record Office) in Kew.

Chancery of the Order of Saint Michael and Saint George.

Downing Street, June 2, 1902.

The KING has been graciously pleased to give directions for the appointment of the following Officers of the Imperial German Navy to the Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George:

To be an Honorary Member of the First Class, or Knights Grand Cross of the said Most Distinguished Order:?

Vice-Admiral Felix Robert Eduard Bmil Bendemami.

To be an Honorary Member of the Second Class, or Knights Commanders of the said Most Distinguished Order:?

Captain Ernst Adolph Julius Guido von Usedom.

To be Honorary Members of the Third Class, or Companions of the said Most Distinguished Order:?

Commander Paul Schlieper.

Commander Max Karl Rudolph Hecht.

Lieutenant Paul Gustav Otto Weniger.

Lieutenant Arthur Tapken.

Lieutenant Werner Otto Robert Kiihne.

Lieutenant Friedrich Wilhelm Hermann Karl Wedding.

Lieutenant Adolph Leberecht von Trotha.

Lieutenant Otto Wilhelm Henry Fielitz.

Lieutenant Freiherr Egon von Kottwitz.

See: http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

I am amazed that he contued to wear an enemy award, though. Very naughty.

Edited December 25, 2005 by Ed_Haynes

[Guest Rick Research]

I've got a 25 year old xerox of the von Hutier hinged in two bar (very very weird) that George sent me then and it looks exactly the same as it did then. The ribbon is all worn to hell from the bizarre hinge system where the medal bar separated into two parts like the Starship Enterprise. George had another to Arthur Frh von Killinger made the same way.

Claudio: did Thies actually sell the Wedding photo with the group, miracle of miracles? I know the fellow who sold it to George not long before his death, and wondered what had become of it in the pillage and sacking. It would be nice to know that ONE group out of the entire collection was actually sold INTACT.

Wedding's St Michael was indeed for China. The method of wear changed very soon thereafter to around the neck. I well remember this particular bar-- the center cylinder of the St Michael opened up, a peculiarity of some other Orders' construction the way things screwed together.

Well, at least I TOUCHED that one Pre Dispersal.

[Claudio]

Dear Rick,

Interesting what you say about Hutier's construction system; I would have liked to see personally. It wasn't mentioned on Thies catalogue's description.

About Wedding's photograph; I am afraid Thies sold only the medal bar with the ribbon bar. I got the picture from a previous thread on the WAF.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Ed_Haynes]

Wedding's St Michael was indeed for China. The method of wear changed very soon thereafter to around the neck. I well remember this particular bar-- the center cylinder of the St Michael opened up, a peculiarity of some other Orders' construction the way things screwed together.

The C.M.G. (and C.B., and other "C"-level orders) were switched from breast wear to round-the-neck wear in 1917, so Wedding would, presumably, not have worn his C.M.G. any other way (although the whole ssue of whether and how to near "enemy" awards is interesting).

[W McSwiggan]

Paul,

Actually Manfred von Richthofen held all three as well.

Per O'Connor - several aviators held two of the three.

wem

Thats amazing!

Thanks for showing these examples Claudio! i would never have beleived it if i hadn't seen it!

three of the Hanseatic crosses on one bar? how could this happen?

I am pertubed by this...

Cheers,

Paul

Edited December 26, 2005 by W McSwiggan

[HeikoGrusdat]

@Ed : Thank you very much for the answer on the british order question!!!

@Rick: Thies said in the auction description that Weddings bars will come with a huge documentary, but I don`t now what this means if it is said by Thies.... maybe he wants to become the worldchampion in splitting up groups...

Heiko

[Guest Rick Research]

I don't have any reverse xeroxes of the von Hutier and Frieherr von Killinger bars, but they fitted together with literal hinge joints that could come apart and had two separate catches and pins on back to be worn presumably either like the Wedding belt-to-armpit bar or in two rows, one over the other. WHY that was done, God knows. Maybe they both kept them framed under glass when not being worn and liked the look that way.

Von Hutier apparently divided his the way he did to make a "Prussian only" fashion statement (given how senior he was, I'm amazed that no photos of him WEARING this bar either way have turned up), but Killinger needed his divided because it was as long as Wedding's. He split his at German/foreigns.

BTW, although the Frackspange bar is often called "naval," I have NEVER sen any member of the navy wearing wedals other than the way Wedding did. "Reversed order" wear was for CIVILIAN lapels.

[Richard Gordon]

Here is one of mine. For some reason the Hanseatic ribbon is deteriorating and a lower part is missing. Reverse is with a tailors label. C.G Ulrich, HAMBERG and has a green backing.

[Richard Gordon]

Here is my second one. I believe this is a luxury, private purchase Hanseatic cross in silver. The Hindenburg is also private purchase and made from bronze (non magnetic). The reverse has an off white backing often seen in Godet bars, but without label.