Freikorps Ribbon Bar

[webr55]

Gentlemen,

look what Santa brought me:

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

The back.

So this is a long-serving NCO, in before 1897, with four Freikorps awards:

1) EK2 1914

2) Prussian XV

3) Centenary

4) Saxon FAM

5) rather an Altenburg Bravery Medal (than a Saxon LS)

6) Austrian Bravery Medal

7) Baltic Cross

8) Russian St. Stanislaus Order 3rd cl

9) Medal of the Iron Division

10) Medal of the "Deutsch-Russische Westarmee"

I'm not sure, would #8 suggest that he ultimately made officer? I don't know the award criteria for the St. Stanislaus.

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Gerd Becker]

Great Ribbonbar, Chris

Looks like a hardcore prussian from the placement of the medals. Centenary on third place

Gerd

[landsknechte]

Very nice!

[Guest Rick Research]

A classic Godet backing from their distinctive hinge and catch! This is the MOST Freikorps awards I have ever seen on a bar-- just absolutely

[attachmentid=20524]

The Whites strewed "Orders" promiscuously-- it wouldn't surprise me if a Vizefeldwebel ended up as a temporary officer in one of their units.

Man, would I have loved to see the rest of THIS man's awards and paperwork!

This is without a doubt the finest Freikorps/Russian Civil War ribbon bar I have ever seen.

[Bob Hunter]

Well done! You must have been a very, very good boy!

[webr55]

Thanks to all for your comments!

So this is Godet - nice to know. It is surprising how clean and new the bar looks - almost no wear. The Austrian ribbon looks almost too modern, being of the slightly pink-ish variation.

[Guest Rick Research]

Oh, you can send it to me then, for my special Island of Misfit Ribbon Bars.

[webr55]

Hi Stogie,

interesting point, but - as I said - that is not a Saxon LS. He's got his Prussian LS in 2nd place. #5 must be the Altenburg Bravery medal.

[Guest Rick Research]

I would have to agree that -Altenburg is more likely than a Saxon long service BUT mix and match paired long services were not unknown (though certainly pecular) for Beamten-- many a naval official was a reserve or Landwehr officer in the Bavarian or Saxon or W?rttemberg land forces. I've also noted army Beamten with a dR/dL long service from another state.

That's not the case here, probably.

Now, as to the long serving Prussian with a Centenary and yet a mere wartime Friedrich August Medal--

1) nothing to indicate that his service was long enough to have BEEN continuous from 1896 (one reason medal bars are soooooooo much better than ribbon bars for resolving What's The Ribbon questions)--

a) this could have been a IX or just as likely-- perhaps more reasonably-- an LD2: IF our boy was an 1896-98 draftee, he qualified for the 1897 Centenary, and certainly then had the years in for an LD2, which could STILL have left him as an Unteroffizier or Sergeant in the Landwehr well into the war. I'd have expected the Saxon Honor Cross X for a Vizefeldwebel up, but perhaps non-Saxons weren't as likely to have gotten one-- there aren't many on the WW1 award roll.

b) that plain yellow ribbon, for all we know, was a Baden Merit Medal on the pre-war ribbon. He might have gotten one, God knows why, in 1913 as a Gefreiter... for all we know.

Although the "normal" Godet backing-- at least the one they affixed their tiny metal "license plate" tag to-- was a light gray, there are other random colors out there:

[attachmentid=20632]

I consider the " = " hinge with pinned-though pin and wide gun metal gray/black catch "signatures" of Godet metal backings. Godet had a number of ribbon bar peculiarities, including their freakish oversized and be-acorned ?M3K device, which help Spot The Product.

This ribbon bar can come live forever at my house annnnnnnnnnnny time.

[Guest Rick Research]

I'm happy with it. See, I watched "Columbo" and "Quincy" when they were first run episodes, and if there's ONE thing I learned in my training as a forensic ribbonbarologist from Peter Falk and Jack Klugman, it's that when the "original" thread is ON TOP OF the funny looking thread-- the funny looking thread was there FIRST.

[attachmentid=20657]

Note Godet's characteristic wide, dark metal catch, and the way the "license plate" tag is sewn at the corners-- that is frequently missing, but a "ghost" of where it once was can often be found on now-tagless bars... if you know where to look.

[webr55]

I absolutely agree with the LD2 theory. Not long-serving, but long reserve.

[Guest Rick Research]

Hey presto! (Thanks to #28458 ) A new technological power is rising...

Here are three random Godet ribbon bars. Note their inexplicably freaky ?M3K wreath, completely improper for the Austro-Hungarian gilt laurel leaves! THIS device is a "fingerprint" for unmarked bars as to Godet origin.

[attachmentid=20661]

Now the TOP bar has what can be considered the "standard" Godet pale gray backing-- but it's metal backings are entirely brass. No, NOT nasty horrid hand-snipped Mister Ohio Parts Fraud brass, heavy stamped and soldered brass. This MAY date from the 1920s. (This little jewel came BOXED, as well.) Note the "license tag" label.

The middle bar-- missing a green enamelled Baden MKFVO wreath, whose prongs are still under the ribbon-- is the classic Godet metal backing (ALL of these have " = " hinges with the pins pinned vertically), with a "license plate," but with the dark brown backing and Oops My Thread Broke stitching previously noted. (I'm almost sure this belonged to the Adjutant of Commander, Flying Troops but need more data on him.)

Lastly, the ratty bottom bar has NO "license plate," is on what MIGHT have been the "signature gray" backing, but bears the freaky ?M3K wreath device. While this has the " = " hinge, the ctach is steel wire. Since Daniel Krause has a matching more-awards bar from THIS as yet unidentified officer, am fairly confident this dates from DURING the war.

[Guest Rick Research]

OK folks, plunk yours in.

I can't figure out how to do that "quote that shows a scan from another post" thang, so here's laborious linkseses, one at a time:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=3...indpost&p=36734

(= classic pin, hinge, and backing)

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=3...indpost&p=37286

(= license plate tag, classic hinge, variant catch and backing)

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=2...indpost&p=20448

(= classic pin and hinge, freak ?M3K device, but scrawny brown backing)

Huff, puff... the "range" of products over unknowable time.

Edited December 28, 2005 by stogieman

[Stogieman]

I have never said this bar is fake, I have merely stated that in my eyes, this does not match the Godet bars that Rick Research is attributing this one to.

Again, my apologies if I belabored my point endlessly.

Edited December 28, 2005 by stogieman

[DanEMS]

Hi, does anybody have a photo of the Medal of the Deutsch-Russische Westarmee?

Best Regards,

Dan

[webr55]

I've only got this pic with the medal on a bar, second from the right.

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Paul R]

Would these awards be dropped with the HK? These are not commemoratives, are they?

[DanEMS]

Thank you very much for the photo webr55!

[Robin Lumsden]

Just out of interest..............this lot appeared on eBay a couple of years ago. Sold to a Russian for mega-bucks.

[DanEMS]

What kind of medal is the one third from right?

Dan

[Guest Rick Research]

That's the medal of the Soldaten-Siedlungsverband Kurland from 1919. Obviously their plans to create a German colony after the defeat of 1918 was stillborn.

Note that the much be-glittered recipient of the medal bar shown was a mere 12 years service (and since wartime counted double for regulars, that could have been as little as 6 real years) noncommissioned officer--

yet there he was, decked out with a St. Stanislaus "Order" and the highest award of Russia, the "Order" of Saint George.

Neither WHITE award was, of course, anything even close to what the Tsarist originals signified. Devalued to the point of campaign medals, practically, that is why I am no fan of these awards. "Prince General" Bermont-Avalov handed out paperwork for these like candy, which the vain recipients then had to BUY for their Fancy Dress.

Now ODDLY enough, while those White Russian awards never came under any official German ban and only ceased being worn under the Third Reich out of

a) embarassment at how little they really meant and/or

b) were felt to be "inappropriate" and best tucked away while the race war in the East was underway

the GERMAN ones WERE banned--

bye-bye Soldiers Settlement Association! Bye bye Iron Division! Bye bye all the various unit awards EXCEPT the Baltic Cross.

[DanEMS]

Thank you very much for that informative reply Rick Research!

Dan

[paddywhack]

iv got a lovely 2 place trapoizd ribbion bar marked by godet, its the type that can be worn with and without the medals! now at the moment its missing the medals and one of them is the order of St. Stanislaus! would i be right in saying that id have to pay big bucks to get this order on the bar?(the other medal on the bar is the red eagle order)

[webr55]

Well it's not the wearer of my bar on top of this thread, but this photo shows a very similar Leutnant with Baltic Cross and many other similar Freikorps awards. There is a writing on the back from 1940, but the photo should be pre-1935 (no Hindenburg). 

Edited May 8, 2016 by webr55