EK 1939 EK1 just in, could the members please comment

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Everyone,

I just took delivery of this 1939 EK1 that I purchased from a reputable dealer here in Ontario but I would like the opinions of our seasoned collectors.

Do you think this one is genuine or should I start screaming?

There's nothing that is sending up alarms to me but I am pretty green in this area of collecting.

Thanks in advance for your assistance, it is very much appreciated.

Regards

Brian

[Brian Wolfe]

This is the reverse, there is no maker's mark. The cross is not vaulted in fact there is a bit of a curve, or slight vaulting, towards the obverse side. Could this be caused when the recipient was wearing the cross?

There is wear evident and it looks like someone has removed a burr on the underside of the left-hand arm.

Provided this is genuine is there any way to tell who the manufacturer of this EK was?

Thanks again for your help.

Regards

Brian

[Gordon Craig]

Brian,

Hard to tell from a picture. Some things you could look for;

1-is the centre magnetic?

2-is it of three piece construction? There is a centre section, a front section and a back section to these awards. You should be able to see the line on the sides of the arms where the back and front were joined together.

I have never seen one vaukted to the front. I doubt that this could have been caused by wearing the award. Evidence of the removal or a "burr" would be a problem for me. There are some "experts" who identify an Iron Cross by looking at it but I doubt that this is possible in your case. Unmarked EKIs were the original issues. Those that were marked with an LDO number were replacements sold in stores.

Regards,

Gordon

[Brian Wolfe]

Brian,

Hard to tell from a picture. Some things you could look for;

1-is the centre magnetic?

2-is it of three piece construction? There is a centre section, a front section and a back section to these awards. You should be able to see the line on the sides of the arms where the back and front were joined together.

I have never seen one vaukted to the front. I doubt that this could have been caused by wearing the award. Evidence of the removal or a "burr" would be a problem for me. There are some "experts" who identify an Iron Cross by looking at it but I doubt that this is possible in your case. Unmarked EKIs were the original issues. Those that were marked with an LDO number were replacements sold in stores.

Regards,

Gordon

Hello Gordon,

The centre is magnetic and it is of three piece construction, I should have mentioned this, sorry for the oversight.

My remark about the burr is probably misleading. The edges of the reverse look worn or "rounded off". I would guess to cut down on the wear on the uniform, but that is speculation on my part and I just posted on the O.C. that one should not speculate. I should follow my own advice. The "vaulting" to the front is very slight not at all like the amount seen in the actual valted EK1. My 1914 EK1 really shows curvature (towards the rear) where this is slight (and to the front). I doubt it would show up in a photo. Are the EK1s that are not vaulted perfectly flat? Could the slight curvature in my specimen have been done during manufacturing?

I am learning but there is so much information still to be collected.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Brian

[Guest Darrell]

Although the pictures are a bit dark from the front, it looks like an early Deumer to me :cheers:

[Chris Boonzaier]

Looks OK to me...

[Danny70]

Although the pictures are a bit dark from the front, it looks like an early Deumer to me

Agreed, an early Deumer.

Regards - Danny

[Gordon Craig]

Hello Gordon,

The centre is magnetic and it is of three piece construction, I should have mentioned this, sorry for the oversight.

My remark about the burr is probably misleading. The edges of the reverse look worn or "rounded off". I would guess to cut down on the wear on the uniform, but that is speculation on my part and I just posted on the O.C. that one should not speculate. I should follow my own advice. The "vaulting" to the front is very slight not at all like the amount seen in the actual valted EK1. My 1914 EK1 really shows curvature (towards the rear) where this is slight (and to the front). I doubt it would show up in a photo. Are the EK1s that are not vaulted perfectly flat? Could the slight curvature in my specimen have been done during manufacturing?

I am learning but there is so much information still to be collected.

Thanks for your help.

Regards

Brian

Brian,

I can not say if all EKIs are flat. All of the ones I have are but that does not mean they all are.

Regards,

Gordon

[Brian Wolfe]

Thanks to all who have offered their opinions.

TR items are copied so often that I almost passed up owning this one.

My collection is very small but I really "needed" an EK1 to balance it off.

Thanks again for your help, I hope I can return the favour in time.

Regards

Brian

[Guest Darrell]

Re: Flat EK's to Vaulted EK's.

During WW2, no EK's awarded were vaulted from the factory. The only vaulted crosses were done by the recipients themselves. It is usually easy to spot a vaulted cross. They generally have "dent's" or "creases" on the reverse where the cross was held up against some object while the cross was formed into the desired shape. You can quite often see where the beading is lifted off the core (near the swastika) after the effects of vaulting.

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Darrell,

I never knew that about the WWII EK1. You learn something new (on GMIC) every day.

Regards

Brian

[PKeating]

Re: Flat EK's to Vaulted EK's.

During WW2, no EK's awarded were vaulted from the factory. The only vaulted crosses were done by the recipients themselves. It is usually easy to spot a vaulted cross. They generally have "dent's" or "creases" on the reverse where the cross was held up against some object while the cross was formed into the desired shape. You can quite often see where the beading is lifted off the core (near the swastika) after the effects of vaulting.

I'm afraid your first two statements are a bit wide of the mark.

PK

Edited June 4, 2010 by PKeating

[Guest Darrell]

I'm afraid your first two statements are a bit wide of the mark.

PK

I'm sure they are.

[PKeating]

Well, nobody can know everything about everything. Wasn't actually trying to wind you up or anything. The rest of your post was absolutely spot-on. Some recipients did try to bend them, with the results you describe. However, vaulted 1939 EK1 were produced and a few were awarded, as award pieces, before they were definitely outlawed, along with other variations that found disfavour with Dr Doehle and his office. At least a couple of sections, for example, of the Eben Emael assault force received them, as did various soldiers during the Polish campaign. I have a couple of examples of these early vaulted crosses.

[joe campbell]

there was also an "after-market" jewellers trade for those

who wished to spend some extra, where adjustments could

be made on things like EK's...

there was still quite a bit of talent around from the

grand days of WW1 and inter-war who would make things to

specification.

joe

[all1knew]

Hello there,

Just goes to show you what a quality maker Deumer really was as typically these early crosses stand the test of time rather well.

William Kramer