Portuguese Victory Medals

[lambert]

Hello Bill

Yes seems to be an unofficial medal (Buttuller estabelecimentos- Lisboa) ?

I think the reasonable price .

Best Regards

Lambert

Edited December 14, 2013 by lambert

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Here are the photos of the Buttuller Portugal vic sold on eBay last night.

Bill

[johnnymac]

Thanks Bill for your time and effort,

and to all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year,

Jim

,

[davidck]

This is one of two I have that I'm concerned might be fake--the other being Romania, which I will post momentarily. I got this from jkmilitaria.com, and am mainly concerned because it seems to be in such good condition...seems like it'd have at least a few scratches if it was really 90+ years old. I understand it to be an official Type 2, if it is indeed real.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16545-0-20773300-1387569189.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16545-0-09912600-1387569204.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16545-0-21124500-1387569217.jpg

[Bilco]

Hi David,

It looks OK to me!

Bill

[RobW]

Hello David,

This is one of two I have that I'm concerned might be fake--the other being Romania, which I will post momentarily. I got this from jkmilitaria.com, and am mainly concerned because it seems to be in such good condition...seems like it'd have at least a few scratches if it was really 90+ years old. I understand it to be an official Type 2, if it is indeed real.

As Bill has indicated, there is nothing wrong with the piece. A nice official type 2 with nice French ribbon in good condition.

Regards,
Rob

[davidck]

There are three ostensible Portuguese vics on eBay right now, and I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

The first would appear to be an unofficial type 1, but I'm thinking it might be a fake. Victory's face doesn't seem right.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201012188178?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The second appears to be a garden-variety official type 2, but you can't zoom in far enough to make a detailed assessment.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291048077572?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The third seems to have the lack of detail that Laslo describe in the unofficial type 2, but it seems to me another fake because of its extreme shininess and because it has the wrong suspension. The suspension looks like it may have been saudered on as a replacement, however, so the original may have just broken off.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291044849193?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[johnnymac]

All three are unofficial. The third medal you listed is the newest on the scene

[davidck]

I presume you mean fake...if not, how is the bottom one "new on the scene?"

[johnnymac]

davidckahn

I do understand your point which is, because this item is offered for sale, and is stated or hinted as being official, it should be labeled a fake, artificial, bogus, dummy, fictitious, pretend, sham, etc, etc.

To me there are only truly three types of medals: official types, unofficial types and the ones properly advertised as reproductions. When I write in this forum there are many collectors from many countries who read these articles and by keeping wording simple it may be better understood by all.

As to the second part of your question - this medal has the U.S. ring type suspension and I, for one, have not seen this on the Portuguese medal before.

Jim

Edited January 2, 2014 by johnnymac

[lambert]

Hello davidckahn

The Victory Medal Portuguese is the victim of many fakes, but in the last two years have been many "variations", these variations can not be considered as unofficial copies are generally inexpensive. False.

Lambert

[johnnymac]

Happy New Year Lambert,

Laslo in book, page 74, Figure 93, he listed this medal as a unofficial type 1.

I go back to my earlier statement: "if stated or hinted as being official", it should be labeled a fake, artificial, bogus, dummy, fictitious, pretend, sham, etc, etc.

Jim

[davidck]

Any thoughts on this Portuguese vic? It would appear to be an unofficial type 1, but I can't tell for sure. It has the suspension that Laslo identifies on the unofficial type 1 and the slightly rough surface between the crosses on the reverse, but some of the die features look more like those found on the official type 2--the ends of Victory's feathers, for instance, are a bit more angular than in Laslo's pictures of the unofficial type 1, which are more rounded. The suspension also is noticeably off-center.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-16545-0-84537000-1395856184.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-16545-0-77351400-1395856196.jpg

[RobW]

Hello David,

This example has the same die characteristics as the one in post # 127 of this thread.

It is a nice example of yet another variety that is similar in appearance to the official type 2.

Regards,
Rob

[lambert]

Hello David.

I agree with Rob, however there are many fakes of this medal, some are very obvious, others need to be careful. Not EVERYTHING CAN BE CONSIDERED AS "UNOFFICIAL".

Regards.

Lambert

[peron]

Hi everyone!!!!

Here's a VM (Medalha da Vitória) recent adition to my colection, who came in a set of other medals from a portuguese soldier from the 1ºWW...

What's your opinion/classification?

Best regards

Peron

[davidck]

It looks to me like an unofficial type 1. The space between the crosses on the reverse is textured and Victory's feathers are more angular at the end. Good-looking example.

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Peron,

For me, I would say that it is an official type 2. By against the ribbon may be of Italian origin, but to confirm.

Regards

Jean-Michel

Edited April 4, 2014 by Jean-Michel

[johnnymac]

I agree with Jean-Michel that it is the most common of the official issue medal.

[lambert]

I agree. Type 2 official.

Lambert

[johnnymac]

Lambert I send you PM check your E MAIL box, Jim

[davidck]

Here are a couple eBay items I'm watching...at the risk of alerting potential competitors to the auctions, does anyone have any thoughts on these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221440493327?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221440494898?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

They both appear to me to be unofficial type 1, even though the 2nd is listed as a type 2. The crudeness apparent in Laslo's pictures of the type 2 don't seem to be present here, and the suspension also doesn't match.

[johnnymac]

both are unofficial type-1

both are priced to high.

This one, is one of this sellers medal and it is a hard one to find - Rumania Romania WW1 Victory Medal & Award Document Unofficial Type 1 Rumanian

Regards

[Marne14]

This one, is one of this sellers medal and it is a hard one to find - Rumania Romania WW1 Victory Medal & Award Document Unofficial Type 1 Rumanian

Regards

Hi,

As said by johnnymac (but without link?), I think also this lot was more interesting...

Regards

[davidck]

I actually just received a Rumanian unofficial type 1 in the mail, so didn't bid on that auction of his. I was interested in the type 3a, but that went for nearly $400, and I just wasn't prepared to spend that at the moment.