Chris Dale Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hello Learned Gentlemen, This might seem an obvious question to some of you but were Prussian Long Service Medals 1st-3rd Class only for NCOs? Would any private soldiers still be serving after 9 years without promotion to NCO status? Officers would only get the 25 Year Officer's Long Service Cross, wouldn't they? If those last two are correct, then only NCOs would have the 1st-3rd Class Long Service awards surely? Or am I missing some key clues? Any help would be appreciated... Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hi Chris, About officers, they could received the XX long service medal. Thos officers served as Reserve officer. Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi Chris, Here is the long service for reserve officer with XX instead of XXV. Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The Prussian military long service awards for 9, 12 and 15 years of service were for EMs and NCOs only, while an officer would have to wait 25 years to get his XXV cross. Similar in other German states. Bavarian officers e.g. got a XXIV cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dale Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thank you Deruelle and Saschaw for your very helpful answers so far. officers could received the XX long service medal. Those officers served as Reserve officer. So a Reserve Officer got his Long Service award after 20 years, but a regular army officer got his after 25 years. Is that correct? The Prussian military long service awards for 9, 12 and 15 years of service were for EMs and NCOs only. But was anyone still an EM after 9 years service? Surely any soldier would be an NCO by then? Or are there examples of EM ranks with the Long Service award? Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 So a Reserve Officer got his Long Service award after 20 years, but a regular army officer got his after 25 years. Is that correct? Right! But was anyone still an EM after 9 years service? Surely any soldier would be an NCO by then? Or are there examples of EM ranks with the Long Service award? I'm not sure, but at least that is what the awards are called: "für Manschaften und Unteroffiziere" - for EMs and NCOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) But was anyone still an EM after 9 years service? Surely any soldier would be an NCO by then? Or are there examples of EM ranks with the Long Service award? Cheers Chris One could still be a Gemeiner i.e. EM (Mannschaften) like Gefreiter or Obergefreiter, Krankenträger, etc., after nine years of service. . Edited January 4, 2011 by Naxos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dale Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Naxos, Saschaw, that's brilliant. Thank you for clearing this little mystery up for me... I love this forum, any mysteries I have on Imperial German medals, cleared up in less than 24 hours... thanks chaps! Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hello: Most WWI veterans groups seen with long-service awards were for NCO's who started serving before 1914, as most 1914-1918 volunteers/conscripted soldiers never had enough service time to qualify for a long-service award. It was however possible to be a long-serving enlisted man who never received a promotion due to various reasons and receive a long-service award as noted above. I believe that the Prussian long-service awards were actually not often given out during the war, but were usually physically awarded after November 1918. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dale Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks SPM for the aditional information. It's starting to all make sense now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avadski Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Guys, can somebody please confirm or correct my understanding regarding Bavarian army... EM & NCO received medals for 9,12 and 15 years of service. Officers received crosses for 24 and 40 years of service. If a soldier was promoted to an officer after let's say 13 years of service was he allowed to wear a medal for 12 years? Or did he have to return any LS medal and wait another 11 years to get 24 years cross? Or one could become an officer only after 24 years of service? Sorry for probably stupid questions but I finally want to be clear on LS award rules How it was with Landwehr? 12 years for EM and NCOs and 20 years for officers? Same rules as in the army? Thanks for bringing light into my LS knowledge darkness :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leutwein Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) Hello Chris, don´t know if some EM (of the imperial amry!!) received the long service medal but the most soldiers should be a NCO after nine years service! In the colonies it was most common that an EM received the long service medal for 9 years but only due to the fact that colonial service was a double counting.... ....for example an EM served since 1901 in the imperial army and from 1904 to 1906 in German Southwestafria. It´s only 5 years but with his colonial service it is 9 years So he was able to receive the long service medal for 9 years. Have to check up my collection, perhaps I´ll find an example.. Best wishes Karsten Edited January 4, 2011 by Leutwein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ostprussenmann_new Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Hello Chris, don´t know if some EM (of the imperial amry!!) received the long service medal but the most soldiers should be a NCO after nine years service! In the colonies it was most common that an EM received the long service medal for 9 years but only due to the fact that colonial service was a double counting.... ....for example an EM served since 1901 in the imperial army and from 1904 to 1906 in German Southwestafria. It´s only 5 years but with his colonial service it is 9 years So he was able to receive the long service medal for 9 years. Have to check up my collection, perhaps I´ll find an example.. Best wishes Karsten This is an interesting topic, because I have always wondered the same. In the Case of Colonial Service, wouldn't that be true during the War 1914-1918? Here is an example: If a Soldier completed his mandatory Active Service from 1910-1912, then was placed in the Reserve from 1912-1914, then served in the Army during the War from 1914-1918 and ended up as a Gefreiter, wouldn't that Soldier be intitled to either a 12-year LS medal or at least a 9 year LS medal? Where he was entitled to it or not, an officer had to award it to him anyways. If that officer was lazy, he might not even recieve a LS medal. Am I correct in my assumptions or not? ostprussenmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) This is an interesting topic, because I have always wondered the same. In the Case of Colonial Service, wouldn't that be true during the War 1914-1918? ostprussenmann Your logic might apply if Germany wouldn't have lost the war. Long service medals were not awarded during the war - I'm sure there were plans by the imperial Ordenskanzlei to hand them out again after the war. After Nov. 1918: No Imperial Ordenskanzlei - the Kaiser and his Reich gone - foreign occupations in the east and west - attempted revolutions by the left and the extreme right - three years of hunger and political instability to follow .. A slice of moldy bread was in higher regard then a medal for service in a defeated Army. . Edited January 8, 2011 by Naxos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ostprussenmann_new Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Your logic might apply if Germany wouldn't have lost the war. Long service medals were not awarded during the war - I'm sure there were plans by the imperial Ordenskanzlei to hand them out again after the war. After Nov. 1918: No Imperial Ordenskanzlei - the Kaiser and his Reich gone - foreign occupations in the east and west - attempted revolutions by the left and the extreme right - three years of hunger and political instability to follow .. A slice of moldy bread was in higher regard then a medal for service in a defeated Army. . I definitley agree with your last statement. I would not be suprised if Veterans, not nobility, sold off or melted down their awards for Silver and gold content to just provide themselves and their families with food to eat. That might be a contributing factor, besides certain principalites required return of ward upon death, why certain medal bars are missing certain medals off of them. ostprussenmann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Dale Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Guys, can somebody please confirm or correct my understanding regarding Bavarian army... EM & NCO received medals for 9,12 and 15 years of service. Officers received crosses for 24 and 40 years of service. If a soldier was promoted to an officer after let's say 13 years of service was he allowed to wear a medal for 12 years? Or did he have to return any LS medal and wait another 11 years to get 24 years cross? Or one could become an officer only after 24 years of service? Good question. Here's Rick Researches answer to a similar question (I hope he won't mind me quoting him from the Wehrmacht Awards Forum http://www.wehrmacht...ead.php?t=26723 ). "The M1913 IX years service medal on the right was given only to enlisted ranks. When found in an officer's or official's group, such an award indicates service up from the ranks. Typically, Feuerwerks, Veterinary etc officers spent long years as NCOs before being commissioned, and in such cases they continued to wear their enlisted long service awards, but these were not made TO officers." I've seen examples of Bavarian, Saxon, Wurttemberg and Hessian long service awards. Does anyone know which states did and which did not have their own awards? Cheers Chris Edited January 12, 2011 by Chris Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 RR and I discussed this at length a few years back and I am presently using my Xmas present (a gift to ancestry.com) to snout round the files of BRIR16. Originally the LS medals were only to have been awarded to REGULAR EM/NCOs. As war time counted double there is a question as to whether the time was counted in calender years OR as mere annual. The Bavarians certainly were handing out LS medals to Reservists EM and war time Volunteers as early as late 1917. Hitler got his and so did a bunch of other 1914 "survivors" (but to be fair, there were VERY FEW of these). I have seen NO Prussian LS awards to war volunteers NOR to reservists. I am also VERY curious as to the status of navy enlisted men. As "imperial troops" were they all regulars? If so, did they qualify? Good topic. Ok!!! I just had this question answered! Thanks Thierry! Look at the Hauptman Peters thread- a Bavarian AND served in DSWA. War time service was counted ANNUALLY and -for the Bavarians, LS awards were handed out towards the end of the war-at least on paper!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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