Old Style Ribbon Bar Scans Requested for Ongoing

[HeikoGrusdat]

Brian, does that foto show a guy with an ek2 nichtkampfer(1870 I presume) on his ribbon bar and a kampfer (1914) in his button hole????

I would say it is a orange-white Red Eagle order or Allgemeine Ehrenzeichen.....

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Here is my best old style ribbon bar.

Ernst von Eschwege.

Very interesting is the Griffin Order and the Order of the Wendish Crown. Both from Mecklenburg-Schwerin.

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Backside.

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I got the ribbon bar together with the miniature chain. But the long bar is missing.

[HeikoGrusdat]

your Mecklenburg stuff is as always very impressive!!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Oooo! Ooooo!

So you ended up with that NIFTY ? pre-1870 Old Style X officer's photo? Any clue on his regiment?

The Feldwebelleutnant with EK2 1914 in his buttonhole is wearing Old Style bar:

Allgemeine Ehrenzeichen, Prussian IX of the pre-1913 type, China Medal, and 1897. Remember the "spectrum shift" in colors.

[Ulsterman]

sigh-alas, no regimental numbers to be seen anywhere.

[Guest Rick Research]

Agh... since that looks to me to pre-date the 1870 war.

[David Gregory]

Major von Reichenbach of Infanterie-Regiment 140 also used this plain type of ribbon bar. I worked out what the awards were from the 1926 rank list, but my notes have been filed separately from the photo:

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A close-up of the bar:

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And his cloth star:

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[David Gregory]

Ribbon bars are not really my "thing", but these turned up (separately) on German eBay and were too nice to resist.

Single Saxon service award ribbon bar:

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The Saxon service award and the Braunschweig non-com ribbon below seem straightforward, but what does the Russian ribbon represent?

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[Guest Rick Research]

G?nther von Reichenbach (born Thorn 31.12.1863) had long served in Hamburg Inf Rgt 76 before transferring to Inf Rgt 140. He's wearing his Johannitter Order cross very nicely stitched on, and ribbon bar of

Red Eagle Order 4, XXV, 1897, and Saxe Ernestine House Order Knight 2nd. Unfortunately I only have the combined rolls from about 1911 and he got that before his promotion rto Hauptmann in 1898. Retired as Oberst after the war.

The Saint Stanislaus ribbon was also used on a variety of Zeal Medals and so on...

but that is very definitely an OFFICER'S Old Style ribbon bar and not an enlisted man's dual purpose one, so methinks what you have in the middle there is a Swedish Sword Order, and this is a pre-war bar.

Will see if I can spot a suspect before the war.

...

No match in 1914 (actually end of 1913) for reguklars and dR. haven't looked dL or aD. Might also be well back before 1914, but always start closest to when the styl was last worn....

[David Gregory]

G?nther von Reichenbach (born Thorn 31.12.1863) had long served in Hamburg Inf Rgt 76 before transferring to Inf Rgt 140. He's wearing his Johannitter Order cross very nicely stitched on, and ribbon bar of

Red Eagle Order 4, XXV, 1897, and Saxe Ernestine House Order Knight 2nd. Unfortunately I only have the combined rolls from about 1911 and he got that before his promotion rto Hauptmann in 1898. Retired as Oberst after the war.

The Saint Stanislaus ribbon was also used on a variety of Zeal Medals and so on...

but that is very definitely an OFFICER'S Old Style ribbon bar and not an enlisted man's dual purpose one, so methinks what you have in the middle there is a Swedish Sword Order, and this is a pre-war bar.

Will see if I can spot a suspect before the war.

...

No match in 1914 (actually end of 1913) for reguklars and dR. haven't looked dL or aD. Might also be well back before 1914, but always start closest to when the styl was last worn....

Rick,

Thanks for the additional information on von Reichenbach.

If the bar is a pre-war officers one for a Saxon service award, Swedish Sword Order and something Russian, would an officer have received a zeal/merit medal or is a Stanislaus order more likely? I thought the zeal medals were for NCOs, or did officers receive them, too?

What would a Saxon do to receive Swedish and Russian awards pre-1914? Was he just in the right place when the relevant monarch visited or are there any specific connections between Saxony, Sweden and Russia?

Thanks in advance,

David

[Glenn J]

David,

a super photograph of Major von Reichenbach. Some additional details on his career:

He was the son of one Hauptmann Louis v. Reichenbach of Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 44 who was killed in action at Colombey on the 27 September 1870.

A graduate of the cadet corps he was assigned as a char. Portep?e F?hnrich to Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 6 on 14 April 1883. Promoted to Portep?e F?hnrich on 13 November 1883 and to Sekonde-Lieutenant on 13 September 1884. From 1 Mar to 31 July 1889 he was detached to the Milit?r-Turnanstalt and from 1 June to 12 July 1890 to Pionier-Bataillon Nr. 5. On promotion to Premier-Lieutenant on 15 July 1893 he was transferred to Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 76 where he was appointed as a company commander on promotion to Hauptmann (without a Patent) on 15 June 1898. He received his Patent as a Hauptmann on 9 October 1898 and continued to serve as a company commander in Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 76 until he was promoted to Major (supernumery) and assigned to the regimental staff. On 18 October 1912 he was assigned as the commander of II./Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 140. Promoted to Oberstleutnant on 24 July 1915 he was the one time commander of Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 332. Retired as an Oberst.

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

David: could be either the St Stanislaus Order OR if this was an NCO "mit Portepee"'s bar, a Zeal Medal if the Swedish Sword was its Merit Cross.

Actually, although BOTH Sweden and Russia seem odd places to have decorated Saxons, both being quite unusual indeed, there are actually more Swedish awards in the 1914 Rank List than Russian ones, in no discernable pattern of units or even branch of service whatsoever.

I haven't a clue"why" any of them got those decorations!

[Wild Card]

Hi Rick,

While not exactly the form that you are looking for, this one is, I think, quite old -

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

The back.

[Guest Rick Research]

Ohhhhhhh yes indeed! Glad I was to have been able to paw that in person-- you can bet that will be the first one in the Revised Edition:

earliest known indeed, when even what we now consider medal bars were soft sloppy sewn-togethers!

[Ulsterman]

Ohhhhhhh yes indeed! Glad I was to have been able to paw that in person-- you can bet that will be the first one in the Revised Edition:

earliest known indeed, when even what we now consider medal bars were soft sloppy sewn-togethers!

OK- I give up-what am I looking at here- a Napoleonic bar?

...earlier?

[Guest Rick Research]

A veteran of same, surely. Hessen-Kassel's Golden Lion Order, Wilhelm's Order, and Napoleonic Wars-only Iron Helmet Order.

1840s? 1850s? There is no campaign medal here, which suggests a "reduced wear" version and helps cloud the dating.

This certainly falls into the "personal prototype" category, and almost certainly was once worn with the awards sewn on back. But that wouldn't have worked very well, since this is not very much bigger than large 1916+ ribbon bars with full width ribbons.

It dates from the period of "Before Any Regulations" which produced civilian dress wear custom made ribbons like these, just received from Gerd, which measure between 4mm and 12.5mm wide each ribbon--all in 150% scale.

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[Gerd Becker]

Rick, could you name the awards on combo Nr. 1 and 2, please?

And whats the middle one of the last combo, which looks like a soviet VoG Ribbon?

TIA

Gerd

[Wild Card]

Rick, could you name the awards on combo Nr. 1 and 2, please?

And whats the middle one of the last combo, which looks like a soviet VoG Ribbon?

TIA

Gerd

Hi Gerd,

You are correct in that the middle ribbon is a Soviet Victory over Germany ribbon; and, as you know, it is also the Soviet Order of Glory ribbon. However, in this case, it is for the Imperial Russian St. George Order, flanked by the orders of St. Anna on the left and St. Vladimir on the right.

When the Soviet order of Glory was founded in November of 1943, the Soviet government was going through it?s Mother Russia program in an effort to motivate the troops with something better than Marx and Lenin. Hence the new orders founded around that time were named after old Tsarist heroes such as Suvorov, Kutozov and Ushakov and for the Order of Glory, the ribbon of the still well known St. George was chosen.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

I'm not sure about the ribbon on with the St George and St Vladimir-- it could be a Brunswick Henry the Lion, since the edge stripes aren't perfect for a St Stanislaus.

Top tiny (4mm!!!!) Red Eagle, something purply red, Baden Z?hingen Lion (for some reason the early ones seem to be almost black-green rather than the much paler WW1 era grass green we are used to), something red (and who can ACTUALLY know what monocolor ribbons represent?), Prussian 1813-15 noncombatant Campaign Medal aka "Iron Plum," and the Russian St Stanislaus (notice edge stripes).

Next one: Brunswick House Order, Red Eagle, red, probably Prussian long service, what is identified as the 1861 Prussian Coronation Medal (yellow faded) on the handwritten label next to each snip, and what is most likely a Hannoverian Guelph.

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks Rick and WC

I totally forgot about the St. George Cross, which makes sense in this old combination of course. And i failed to recognize the noncombattant War Medal 1813/5.

Thanks Gentlemen

Gerd