Cuban Victory Medals

[lambert]

I would have purchase this medal if I did not already have one.

Jim

Me too.

Lambert

[lambert]

Lambert, I've been comparing your medal above with my, tentatively-identified, Cuban-made vic - post # 46, page 3. There are plenty of differences on obverse and reverse - not least that yours doesn't have the die crack on the reverse. Do I understand from the photos on eBay that yours has no C Charles on the obverse and no markings on the edge?

Bill

Hello Bil,

Exactly!

Do not have the manufacturer's or sculptor's signature brand. This leads us to an unofficial copy (Made in Cuba) probably in the 1930s Rob posted a very similar example page 1 -. # 2. I think this is a copy of the Cuban medals that same manufacturer.

Lambert

[muckaroon1960]

Hi Everyone, just been reading up on this thread, a great source of information and I like the interest it has sparked amongst you all. I have just recently bought a Cuban Victory medal on the assumption that it may well be a French copy from the 1920's? The medal has the Charles signature but no edge markings. Would appreciate any feed back on this please.

It also had with it type of securing pin as attached to French military medals. I didn't part with much cash for this so no great loss. It displays with my Italian and Serbian Victory medals.

[johnnymac]

Yes I would say from what I see it is original, nice find.

Jim

[RobW]

Hello Muckaroon1960,

Hi Everyone, just been reading up on this thread, a great source of information and I like the interest it has sparked amongst you all. I have just recently bought a Cuban Victory medal on the assumption that it may well be a French copy from the 1920's? The medal has the Charles signature but no edge markings. Would appreciate any feed back on this please.

It also had with it type of securing pin as attached to French military medals. I didn't part with much cash for this so no great loss. It displays with my Italian and Serbian Victory medals.

A nice example that you have obtained.

Good patina and a nice strike. Cuban vics, with or without the edge markings, in good condition are becoming more difficult to find.

Regards,
Rob

[lambert]

Hello All.

:D

It feels good to be back.

muckaroon1960
Please could you show pictures of the edges?

BR

Lambert

PS: Welcome

[muckaroon1960]

Edge pics as requested.

[lambert]

No manufacturer brand? nothing? see the hanging strap;

Lambert

[Jean-Michel]

hello,

I think the photos were taken with a flash.

I think there is no marking on the suspension ring.

The ribbon is good.

In conclusion, for me this medal is a copy.

Best Regards

Jean-Michel

[muckaroon1960]

Thanks for all your input on this guy's much appreciated.I have to agree that I think this is a copy also. Thought that when I bought it so no surprises either but still looks nice with my other Vic's.

[johnnymac]

Muckaroon,

Some of your answers might be in my book.

Regards,Jim

Edited December 11, 2014 by johnnymac

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Muckaroon,

The medal you have presented is not an official model nor an unofficial model is that a copy that can easily be found on Ebay.

The obverse of the medal is very well copied, the other side has several shortcomings.

The patina of this medal is fairly well imitated.

Regard

Jean-Michel

[johnnymac]

Jean Michel

Would you mine listing the shortcomings you think may make this medal copy or fake.

Also just asking you, do have a photo example of the medal you are thinking of from ebay that you might be able to post?

I am not sure so I have to ask, would you agree that in the photo I listed earlier next to the medal in question in post 111 is an issued and official Cuban victory medal?

,

Regard Jim

Edited December 11, 2014 by johnnymac

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Jim,

Here are two links to pictures of bad qualities, but we can see that it's the same medal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEDALS-WW1-CUBA-VICTORY-MEDAL-1914-18-FULL-SIZE-/161422041360?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item259580e110

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW1-ARMY-NAVY-AIR-CORPS-MILITARY-CUBA-VICTORY-MEDAL-WORLD-WAR-ONE-/291238812258?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item43cf2f9a62

Why do you want me to tell you if your medals are official models? I do not understand your gait!

Regard

Jean-Michel

[johnnymac]

Hi Jean-Michel

I see what you are saying about how much they look like the medal in question. But I feel these two were later copies of the first medal.

From what I can see the name is not there on either medal as it is on the first medal. Also the quality is poor on the other two and I would not put them all in the same class as the one in question.

Just looking that the palm tree you can see a major difference.

So are these two other medals the same as the first medal, you decide.

Thanks for the come back.

Regards, Jim

Edited December 13, 2014 by johnnymac

[Jean-Michel]

Hi Jim,

For me, what I noticed first, those are the three mistakes I have outlined in red.

Regard

Jean-Michel

[Bilco]

Hi Jean-Michel,

I posted a very similar photo in the Fakes! section - http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/49866-fakes/page-7#entry568443

There was some discussion about this Cuba vic there.

Bill

[johnnymac]

To add more to this discussion

The first photo was posted by Tim B. the next two are my own medals and I he two more that are similar.

the next photo shows color of both medal are very much the same and the one in the red background is missing the a small section of the post from what I can see.

The bubbles could be poor workmanship or inspection or a die difference.

[johnnymac]

Adding this to the discussion" look at the letters in the word "GUERRA" see how they all look the same in size and shape in the first five, but not the six word, the one that Jean-Michel posted in #114 as a fake or repro. The "G" looks like a "6" and all the letters are thicker.

Edited December 13, 2014 by johnnymac

[muckaroon1960]

I appreciate all your efforts and comments on this guys. I have added some more pictures taken without a flash.

[johnnymac]

Muckaroon1960, It is interesting how lighting can change an item's look so lets see what we have with these new photos. Thanks for the new photos.

Do you think minor flaws would be transferred to a medal if you were making a copy of that medal? Myself I would think it would be very hard to put imperfections or flaws on a copy, this why I think the medal in question is good, but maybe just from another die set.

In the first set of photos, the one on the left is the one you posted the first time, the other medal is the second or last one you just posted. Yet, I see differences in the two photos of your, just slight differences like the key handle in the left photo has dent at the top part of the "O" on the handle part of the key but it does not show up with the second photo.

The second photo, I illustrate one of my original bronze Cuban victory medal's, I marked it with a slanted red line next to an area that show an imperfection or flaw which is slanted.

In the third photo is another original one my Cuban medal's which is gilded, again the second medal is your medal, it has two red boxes on both medals illustrated, note that they both illustrations have the same flaw. Next check the "M" out in the second red box both have a ghost outline of a second "M", a double hit on both. I will add that there is a bump on the vertical line similar to the two on your line.

The four photo has one of my original gilded Cuban's and your second posted medal, it also has two red boxes on both medals illustrated, note that they both illustrations have the same flaw. Next check the "M" out in the second red box both have a ghost outline of a second "M", a double hit on both.

Bottom line, if this medal you posted is a copy its a very good copy.

Edited December 14, 2014 by johnnymac

[johnnymac]

(I had to post these two here)

The fifth photo is the one Jean-Michel directed us to on ebay, he believes it is the same medal as the one Muckaroon1960 posted. As far as I can tell from the enlargement of that medal which J-M posted from ebay, there is no slanted line or flawed area, nor does this M look the same as the ones above.

Photo number six photo is showing another of my original Cuban Victory medal, but I this time I posted it in full size to see if we could notice the slanted line and you can plainly see it shows even in this photo, as well as the double "M".

I did my best to add interest to all by my photos.

I'll end by quoting Ripley "Believe it or Not"

Regards, Jim

Edited December 14, 2014 by johnnymac

[muckaroon1960]

When I purchased this medal fairly recently I said to my wife this is either an original or a very good copy. But I only paid £18/$27 for it so no big deal if it is a copy.

[muckaroon1960]

This is the Cuban vic displayed along with Italy, Serbian and USA.

[RobW]

Hello muckaroon,

When I purchased this medal fairly recently I said to my wife this is either an original or a very good copy. But I only paid £18/$27 for it so no big deal if it is a copy.

That is probably the crux of the matter. As long as you, as the collector, is happy with the piece, then that is all that really matters.

We, as collectors, can sometimes get too wrapped up in technicalities and details. As long as the collector is happy with their purchase, and the piece; irrespective of whether or not it is an 'original' or a 'copy' then all should be well. It is, as your last post shows, a fair companion to the other type pieces you have.

Welcome aboard the vic collection train. It may stop at many different stations but it goes in whatever direction the collector wants.

As I mentioned in an earlier post 'It is a nice example'.

Regards,
Rob