johnnymac Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Good morning Bill, thanks for the posting, good to see you weigh in. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) To one and all, Late to the party again... To respond to some of the earlier comments. In 2009 I obtained the cuban group indicated in posts 1 & 2 of this thread. The group that arrived from the vendor was not entirely consistent with what the illustrations showed. I am sure that other collectors have had similar occurrences. This makes my original comments at that time redundant as well. Irrespective I have since obtained the original piece and have re-united it with the group. The gilt example, as per the accompanying picture, is in the same format and design as the bronze example indicated by Lambert in post #71 and seen on the ebay auction. It is from my picture archives as I don't have access to the actual group at the moment. That would suggest that this is a particular design type probably produced by a local cuban manufacturer. It also has a slightly off-centre and squashed ball suspender. Either way this new variety continues to show that there are always more varieties out there just waiting to be identified. Regards, Rob Edited October 29, 2013 by RobW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Hello Rob.It's good to have him back. is exactly the same cast, perfect!I agree with you, at first thought of a private production and only then the comment that Bill made on a production of medals without worrying about the quality seems to be right. See what can we conclude that it could be a discovery of a "new type'' unofficial? Regards Lambert Edited October 29, 2013 by lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 By Laslo’s count there were about 6,000 to 7,000 official medals made. Without doubt if this number is correct, the Cuban Government would have ordered just what was needed to cover the small groups of Army and Navy personnel who would have been entitled to this award. Vilardebo Y Riera was the official military supplier for the Cuban Government from the early 1920s into the 1950s. So let’s say Vilardebo Y Riera made had made an extra 1,000 Victory medals, in both gilded and cooper color for the Government and Private, but official sales, that 1,000 seems a reasonable number. Yet, if we look at this situation there seems to be about 8 - 10 different style Cuban medals in the market! So, who did these unknown medal manufactures make medals for,” the collectors market” and because of this fact we view nearly everything as official. Why, because it would have more "value". Just because there is one of these many different victory medals on a bar does not necessarily make it an official Cuban medal. Or, do we believe the average military person having his medals mounted on a medal bar would know the different between an official, unofficial, reissue, reproduction or fake. To him they all look alike, and because of this fact any medal dealer can pass off anything without him questioning it, “Too the military person, he’s happy and it looks great.” Cuban is a small country with I am sure has very few shops to get medals. I have seen several Cuban medals each claiming to be Vilardebo Y Riera. The one in posting#1 just may be the real deal, and I ask, is it listed in a catalog? Because if it is in a catalog that helps everyone. I also don’t believe the government would have had years later another medal made for reissue because they had their own supplier, Vilardebo Y Riera, so why go though the expense. To me here is only one official medal, with the Vilardebo Y Riera medals being the only other authorized issue medal, the rest are unofficial, reproduction or fake until we have real proof, like documentation or a catalog. Regards, to all Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Hello Rob.It's good to have him back. Regards Lambert Hello Lambert, My appearances will be both fleeting and irregular as work intrudes. Regards, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Lambert I do not agree that your medal (post #68) is an original Cuban and there is why. Edited November 4, 2013 by johnnymac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Click on photos to enlarge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 hi Jim,The medal on the right at the top, is your right?She has the "W" inverted too, like my medal ... This is also the position "F" (France) above the "G" (England). What is the correct classification for this medal? Best Regards Lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Lambert, Since I have not seen anything official saying this medal is official not even in Laslo's book. I, myself would class it as an unofficial ever though it has rim marks. Rim marks only help in supporting who manufactured these medals, but it does not tell us who made the dies or who had these medals made by the establishment of Andrean Chobillon. The bottom line is there are just to many differences between the original Cuban medal and this medal in question to believe it is a second issue by the same person of the original Cuban medal. Regards, Jim Edited November 6, 2013 by johnnymac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliver860 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Hello gentlemen! I want to buy. Medal original? http://www.ebay.com/itm/271337432594?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Hello OliverYes, seems to be a good example Unofficial (Chobillon) Marked. good luck! Lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliver860 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Hello Lambert Thank you! I'll think! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidck Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Here's my Cuban, which I understand to be an official version. I managed to get it relatively cheap, because it's somewhat beat up and is missing the suspension. Does anyone have a recommendation for how to attach a new suspension, for when I'm getting ready to have it mounted? http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16545-0-61283400-1387568213.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16545-0-58085800-1387568197.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilco Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Hi David, It looks OK - does it have the triangular stamp with AC and the BRONZE stamp on the edge? I would think replacing the suspension would be difficult - certainly without removing one from another perfectly sound medal! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidck Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 It has the triangular stamp and another one that I can't read, but I assume it is the BRONZE stamp. It's just too worn to tell. I know I won't be able to replace the suspension with a genuine replacement, but I can surely find some piece of appropriately-shaped piece of metal that will do the trick...just need to figure out how to actually attach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobW Posted December 20, 2013 Author Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) Hello David, Here's my Cuban, which I understand to be an official version. I managed to get it relatively cheap, because it's somewhat beat up and is missing the suspension. Does anyone have a recommendation for how to attach a new suspension, for when I'm getting ready to have it mounted? As Bill has alluded to; in order to repair this piece you would have to either denude another medal of a ball suspender or have one fashioned by a jeweler. An experienced jeweler should be able to solder such a sourced replacement onto the planchet. Either way it is not going to be an easy task. I would keep the piece as a placeholder and wait until you are in a position to obtain another piece complete with ball suspender and suspension ring. Regards, Rob Edited December 20, 2013 by RobW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidck Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Thanks for the advice, Rob. It didn't occur to me that it would be so difficult to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Lambert posted this under fake, I hope you do not mind that I also reposted it here. http://www.ebay.com/...n-/360961065337 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 No problems ...What do you think about this?Modern production or a slightly older copy? Lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 The trouble with Cuban Victory medals is there were about 6,000 official medals made, and at least another ten different type of the unofficial types. To me, it is not a modern repro, but an unofficial. Even the one sold by local suppliers. In many of these small countries like Rumania, the soldiers purchased their own medals as seen on the many medal racks from that and other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambert Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) Hi Jim !! I think I was precipitated, this example is an unofficial type manufactured in Havana (1930?) The price was especially good! Best Regards Lambert Edited June 14, 2014 by lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I would have purchase this medal if I did not already have one. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Does anyone have any idea as to the number of Cuban awards were issued? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymac Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 That number is placed at 6,000 to 7,000 official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilco Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) Lambert, I've been comparing your medal above with my, tentatively-identified, Cuban-made vic - post # 46, page 3. There are plenty of differences on obverse and reverse - not least that yours doesn't have the die crack on the reverse. Do I understand from the photos on eBay that yours has no C Charles on the obverse and no markings on the edge? Bill Edited June 15, 2014 by Bilco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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