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Hi,

Interresting, but some questions appears :

- Why there is no swords on the second and third ribbons ? If those awards were without cross, regulations said that they should be after the iron cross 2nd class, not before.

- The second, thrind and fourth ribbons "seems", (no offense) very new compare to others.

So do you use black light to see your ribbon bar ? Let us know the result please !

Christophe

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Looks like old silk ribbons to me. I like the bar!

Missing swords are seen. I agree they are missing here. Last ribbon can be an OK2 - but could as well be a (pre-war?) OV3.

Hmmm...this ribbon bar would have us believe either; wartime SA and Civil Merit Orders (and OK?) where the bar maker didn't put on the swords or, a pre-war SA and Civil Order, later earned wartime EK2 and SHO. In the later case, if he was a pre-war officer he didn't receive any other pre-war medals or DA?

I would like to see what a black light would reveal. If positive -then we know, but even a negative result would be inconclusive as a period piece.

At best, it is an odd construction.

@CRBeery -Where did get it?

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Fake? Hmmm...the needlework on the back is very tight and looks newish-but that isn't bad IMHO. This is such an unusual and "obscure" bar I doubt it's a fake. LOTS of prewar Saxon officers had no gongs pre 1914.

Yes, I agree the back has tight needlework. Very agreeable, but IMO that alone can not be reason to accept this ribbon bar. This can be replicated by deft hands. My own mother can still make tight stitchs when she has a mind to. I still don't like the combination/ordering. We are to believe that before the war he earned the SA w/o S and Civil Order w/o S. When war broke out he earned the EK2, OK2 and his Saxon homeland awarded him their big order -the SHO, but not the w/S of the SA or Civil Order.

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Claudius, I think you might have missunderstood me.

I'm sure he was awarded both the Verdienstorden and the Albrechtsorden with swords, and choose just not to wear them one the ribbon bar. This is not to uncommon, especially on early to mid WW1 bars. And I'm pretty confident this is a mid WW1 bar.

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Claudius,

Saxon officers who received higher grade of one order like SV or SA should return the old orders. I have a perfect example.

Oberstleutnant Hans Meischner, he received the SA3a in 1896 and the SV3a in 1905. He received during the war the SAOX and he has never received swords to his SV3a. he returned the SA3a and wore only the officer cross with X.

I still think, and it's my personnal opinion, that there is problem with this bar. Not only by missing swords but something special disturbs me. I have a bad feeling on it.

I agree with Sascha, the back is good !

Christophe

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By what reason, please?

I beleve it to be a fake because the ribbons are too clean and even the back looks like it was made yesterday.

The order of the ribbons is right out of the Firma A.D.L.ribbon ribbon chart!

Edited by Arnim
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Claudius, I think you might have missunderstood me.

I'm sure he was awarded both the Verdienstorden and the Albrechtsorden with swords, and choose just not to wear them one the ribbon bar. This is not to uncommon, especially on early to mid WW1 bars. And I'm pretty confident this is a mid WW1 bar.

@Saschaw; You are right. I did misunderstand you. The fault is mine. Regarding the wartime award with swords, but not wearing them is an important fact. Great to know!

@Deruelle; Could you list the awards on his ribbon bar? The picture is a bit blurry for me. Thank you.

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Gentlemen - When I bought this bar I assumed it was to someone too cheap to buy all of the "extras". The condition and age of all of the ribbons are the same but the St.Henry has some extra dirt on it from some point in the past. I am out again and have not had a chance to black light it. I will say that in my experience it is a good bar that the owner omitted the devices from.

@Deruelle - you mention there is something "special" that disturbs you about the bar - can you share that with us? This came from an older collection and it can go back with no problem. I still like it.

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  • 8 months later...

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