Lippe Detmold Lippe Detmold 1888 Merit Medal

[redeagleorder]

Hi all,

Just saw this medal up for sale, cannot believe my eyes. Any opinions to whether it is original or not? And was this medal awarded for civil or military merit?

Thanks for your opinions,

Matthew

[Deruelle]

Hi,

Very interresting medal. In the Schwark's book about Lippe Orders and medals, it appears that this medal has been awarded for both military and civil men.

It was built in gold and in silver.

Medal in gold : 173 medals were awarded between 1888-1918

Medal in silver : 593 medals were awarded between 1888-1918.

Several makers made those medals : Carl Büsch, Sy & Wagner and C.F. Zimmermann. Can you tell me if there is an hallmark on this please.

It is a rare medal. I'm not a specialist about this medal, but when I look the one in the Schwark's book, it looks like very similar.

Before buying this, just ask the seller about size and weight to be sure.

Christophe

[redeagleorder]

Hi Christophe,

Thanks for your help. The medal in question has a diameter of 32mm, and a height of 48mm, not including the ring. I've asked about the weight, but the seller hasn't answered yet. Just out of curiousity, how much would this medal actually cost if it were genuine?

All the best,

Matthew

[Deruelle]

Hi,

About price, it depends, I haven't got in my hands a recent book from Nimmergut, but you can ask to someone who has got one in hands. Probably between 300 to 400 euros. Of course all depends of quality, makers, weight size, if it is with ribbon or not !

I don't collect Lippe medals, but I know that such medals are very rare to find, so if you have an opportunity, take it !!!

Don't forget one thing, if you want it, know that you will become a Lippe collector and after that you will enter in this aera and you will never leave it !

Christophe

[redeagleorder]

Hi Christophe,

Just to let you know, the weight of the medal is 26.2 grams, and it is maker marked with Weigand F. on the obverse and E. W. on the reverse. Does this match with known original medals? If anyone else would like to add their opinion to whether this is original or not, please do!

Thanks for all your help,

Matthew

PS: Christophe you are right, once these medals get a hold of you they never stop! I only have 2 lippe detmold medals, the military merit cross and the military merit medal with swords, but lippe medals are so beautiful that I am thinking of focussing my collection on them.

[redeagleorder]

Just a little something i noted. The letters on the obverse of this medal are different from those on the example displayed at Solomon's website. Most particularly, the two dots on the top of the U in FURST appear to be missing. As far as i know the only manufacturer of this medal was Carl Busch, so what is the explanation for this discrepency?

Thanks for your help

Matthew

[speedytop]

Hi Matthew,

with magnification and brightening I can see dots on the picture?

Please compare:

Uwe

[Deruelle]

Hi,

I see the dots on the U too.

If I take the book, the author says that the weight's medal is between 25,9g and 28,2 g. So it seems to be ok for the weight.

The Weigand f (ecit) is ok for this cross and the EW is for Emil Weigand.

So I think your cross is a perfect example, now you have to see with price and then show it to us asap. Congrats

Christophe

[redeagleorder]

Hi all,

thank you both for your replies, however i think i wasn't clear in my last post. What I meant was that Solomon's example has the dots, while the one i am showing doesn't. If anyone else has another example of this medal, could they please show it so that we can compare.

Thanks for your help,

Matthew

[Deruelle]

Hi

Ask to the seller to send you close up of the medal and more particulary about the dots. LAst thing, if you have a doubt, it means that red flag appears and it's not good at all. Keep your money and wait for a better one. Probably you will find one in a medal bar. Goold luck and good hunt

Christophe

[speedytop]

Hi redeagle,

"... while the one I am showing doesn't"

I mean, that I see the dots on your picture in Post 1, especially the right dot:

"Ask to the seller to send you close up of the medal and more particulary about the dots."

That's right, and I'm convinced, that a better picture will show the dots.

Uwe

[redeagleorder]

Hi all,

Thank you both for your input, speedytop, see what you mean about the dots, and on closer inspection I see them too. I also think i've found ou the reason for the difference between the medal I was comparing it against. The medal shown here is a typical Weigand made one, while the medal i was comparing it against was one of sixteen privately made pieces by Sy and Wagner, rather like the mecklenburg strelitz tapferkeit cross by Godet. With this information i fully intend to bid on it, so wish me luck !!! Will let you know how it goes in a couple of days.

Regards to you both,

Matthew

[Solomon]

Upps, I saw this topic too late. IMO it was a original but worn merit medal. I also placed also a bid on it, but not that much, because I already have two

You also may compare it with the one on my website ( http://www.hausorden.de/zivile-auszeichn-vm.html )

Best regards

Roman

[Paul R]

Did both classes have the same blue and red ribbon?

[Wild Card]

Did both classes have the same blue and red ribbon?

Yes.

[redeagleorder]

Didn't win it . It went to some other lucky guy. Anyway, I will keep my eyes peeled for one. Solomon you wouldn't like to sell me one of yours, would you :cheeky: . Just joking.

Regards,

Matthew

[Solomon]

Dear Matthew,

I have only one single one. The other one is mounted on a very old medalbar

with IC 1870 2nd class with oakleaves :-P

BR

Roman

[redeagleorder]

Where on earth did you lay your hands on that bar?????? You must have been so pysched when you saw it

Matthew

[Solomon]

Please be sure, this medalbar is making me crazy.

When it came, there were only the merit medal Lippe-Detmold and the clasps mounted.

Now I restored it and added everything, which was missing. But the long service award 1st class old style for 21 years (Prussia) at the end of the bar is making me crazy.

Although it isn´t a big investment, I wasn´t able yet to find one suitable...

If anyone has two of it....

Best regards

Roman

[Solomon]

By the way...until today I wasn´t able to ID this bar, although I have the IC2-list and the award-list of the Detmold merit medal...

...too many possible candidates!

BR

Roman

[redeagleorder]

Really great bar, im sorry to hear about the prussian service award. However, the job you have done with this bar is really great and it was totally worth the effort. By the way, could you tell me if the silver and bronze medals of the order of leopold were awarded for civil or military merit?

Thanks,

Matthew

[Solomon]

Haha, infected by the Lippe-Detmold fever?

The Leopold order merit medals were awarded for both (civil and military merit). For example a have a medalbar of a "Bezirksfeldwebel" with the silver medal and documents for a (civil) "Lakai".

But it is more linked to a civil merit and therefore all Leopold-orders of all classes were never awarded with swords.

BR

Roman

[redeagleorder]

It seems that things are looking that way. But you must admit that Lippe-Detmolditis is particularly contagious. Of course, if I do become infected by this fever the blame is partly yours, for providing us with such a good website on lippe-detmold and its medals :cheeky: . Anyway, thanks for the information about the leopold medals.

Regards,

Matthew

[Solomon]

Good luck...Lippe isn´t easy to find...especially the really rare ones, like the Leopoldorden or the upper classes of the house-order.

BR

Roman

[redeagleorder]

Im just bringing this topic up again to ask whether anyone has ever come across a silver medal of the order of leopold made out of nickel silver and not real silver?

Thanks

Matthew