For Research Medal Bar / Frackspange with Finnish Liberty Cross 1918

[Daniel Krause]

yes, but... he did not have a KO4 in 1914.

Already a Captain since October 1913, he was too senior to get a KO4.

Captains received a Red Eagle 4, the KO4 was "reserved" for the Lieutenants...

Lots of greetings

Daniel

[Guest Rick Research]

No-- would have received XXV in 1920 as major aD. The LACK of seniority is what keeps bringing any suspect up short when a couple of piecees fit--then wham, just not possible.

With the Second wartime KVK in there, all the 3rd Reich seniority awards for ANY government service, civil or military, would have come into play.

The pieces just won't...fit.

[misiu]

Thx to all to solve the case.

Yeah, so do you have any idea what to do with such fake medal bars? Cut them into pieces and sell the awards as single pieces?

F?!K.

Winkler as well as Galerie Numismatique are shops which should be on some red list.

Detlef

[Daniel Krause]

no. do not cut it in pieces.

I would wait until "we" have final prove of the impossibility of this combo.

There are a lot of point - Rick mentioned it - to say it is a fake, but I would still wait...

We have seen quite a lot of nonsense in the last years.

What makes me wonder is the complete set.

I did - until now - not see a complete set with Medal bar, ribbon bar, lapel bow and mini chain.

Lots of greetings

Daniel

[misiu]

Ok, thanks Daniel for your advice.

I will wait. Research gnomes will hopefully solve the problem.

[Guest Rick Research]

NEVER destroy anything. One mistake and forever is forever.

Did you blacklight the ribbons? Does the white glow electric blue?

[Dave Danner]

Interestingly enough, there was a Hptm. Ludwig Terberger in IR 158 in 1914. His awards in May 1914 were LDH4 SA3b. His date of rank as a Leutn. was 18.10.1897, so no centenary.

Perhaps the plot thickens??

Andy

Terberger entered the Army as a Musketier in IR 55 on 13 May 1896, so he would have gotten the Centenary. Also, as a combat commander with seventeen years of service in IR 55 before his transfer to IR 158 (which was despite its name also a Westphalian regiment), he was probably a lock for a Lippe Kriegsverdienstkreuz.

[misiu]

The blacklighting must be postponed because I do not have access to the medal bar at the moment. It is in a safe place far away from my home... to many jerks walking around

[christerd]

The ribbon on both the medal bar and the ribbon bar is really for the Finnish Liberty Cross 2nd class medal , not the 3rd class Libert Cross

as now. But we often see " close enough " ribbons on German medal/ribbon bars ......

And most of the Germans I have in my database for Finnish Liberty Cross III 1918 was Leutnants. A hauptmann or higher would probably got a 2nd class. When awarded to Germans the cross was almost always "bumped up " a class , compared to Finnish officers.

[misiu]

Hello collector-friends,

yesterday I blacklightened the Frackspange at an auctionhouse in Stuttgart - nothing glew...and the nice owner of the auction house told that it looks quite genuine. Also the miniatyre chain.

So, the search goes on...maybe in the meantime (3 years since I started the topic), some valuable hints have been found to reveal the history of this bar.

Regards

Detlef

[Claudius]

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 04:06, misiu said:

Hello collector-friends,

yesterday I blacklightened the Frackspange at an auctionhouse in Stuttgart - nothing glew...and the nice owner of the auction house told that it looks quite genuine. Also the miniatyre chain.

I know Rick R was relying on the blacklight to definitively catch this one but he may not have considered that anyone that would perpetrate a fraud to this degree (matching ribbon bar, miniature chain, etc.) would not so easily caught using synthetic thread.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Claudius

[misiu]

Yeah, that is a good point.

But why to fake - professionally - a Frackspange? Frackspangen are - as far as I am concerned - not that popular than "normal" medal bars.

This would be an exceptional and rare fraud in history: Faking everything so professional...and in the end, not trying to maximize the potential profit...like planning a perfect murder but still get caught.

I am just defending this medal bar...may the history play a dirty trick in that case

[laurentius]

On 26-2-2012 at 11:21, misiu said:

 

Dear fellow collectors

Although this topic hasn't been used since april of 2016 I do have a question regarding this medalbar. How is it possible that the red piece of ribbon of the Ehrenkreuz fur Frontkampfer is faded, while the rest of the red ribbons are bright, even those awarded 15 to 20 years earlier? Thanks in advance

Kind regards Laurentius

Edited August 21, 2017 by laurentius