bolgarin Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 For sure its very difficult to answer. On my opinion not more than 250-500 pieces.
ruiz Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 A collector gave me some data that I would compare. Class IV 2nd grade : 1.851 and 1st grade only 77. What do you think? High figures?. Some of them were used by germans. Thank you.
ruiz Posted February 28, 2013 Posted February 28, 2013 My friend told me that these data are from a book of bulgarian awards , Petrov.
Graf Posted March 23, 2013 Author Posted March 23, 2013 Hi, This is small contribution to the topic 4-th Class 2-nd Grade Set -Order, Box and Document to German Officer Graf
bolgarin Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 My friend told me that these data are from a book of bulgarian awards , Petrov. What book he mean?
ruiz Posted March 25, 2013 Posted March 25, 2013 I have not the book, but in the topic of the Order of Bravery, you have this information
new world Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 A collector gave me some data that I would compare. Class IV 2nd grade : 1.851 and 1st grade only 77. What do you think? High figures?. Some of them were used by germans. Thank you. I checked the book and the numbers in it are very different from what your friend told you. According to the "Military Order For Bravery" table in Appendix 2 the following quantities of Bravery order were awarded from 1880 to 1908: 1st class - 14 2nd class - 12 3rd class - 39 4th class - 243 There was no division of 3rd and 4th classes in to Grade 1 and Grade 2 at the time, it only came in place in 1915.
new world Posted March 26, 2013 Posted March 26, 2013 I found waht your friend meant. On page 79 (my edition is from 2002): During the final stages of WWII in 1944-45 following numbers of Bravery order were awarded: 1st class - 1 3rd class 2nd grade - named 5 generals and others, 4th class - total of 1928, including: 4th class 1st grade - 77 4th class 2nd grade - 1851 12 people received both grades of 4th class.
bolgarin Posted March 27, 2013 Posted March 27, 2013 I found in Petrov book information about awarding during WWII. yes Petrov write about 1851.
ruiz Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 I found waht your friend meant. On page 79 (my edition is from 2002): During the final stages of WWII in 1944-45 following numbers of Bravery order were awarded: 1st class - 1 3rd class 2nd grade - named 5 generals and others, 4th class - total of 1928, including: 4th class 1st grade - 77 4th class 2nd grade - 1851 12 people received both grades of 4th class. Of these 77 and 1851 orders delivered, are all to Bulgarian soldiers , or Bulgarians and Germans ...? What do you think ? I think that only the Bulgarian soldiers.
new world Posted July 30, 2013 Posted July 30, 2013 Most of decorations in the list were awarded after Bulgaria switched sides and for actions against Germany, so safe to say these were not awarded to Germans.
ruiz Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 If it is true, information is of the Bravery Order 1945, not 1941. The information about the numbers granted in 1941-1944 is a mystery still. Best regards.
Iver Posted September 25, 2013 Posted September 25, 2013 Dear collegues.. what do you think about this miniature? thanks... I.
Graf Posted September 30, 2013 Author Posted September 30, 2013 Hi Iver, Well done It is a very nice old miniature of the 4th Class 2nd Grade It is rare because it is double sided Also it looks like it is from the first Emmiassion with "7 dots" This emmission did not have 1st Grade of the 4th Class Check for any silver or maker marks - on the ring Regards Graf
Iver Posted September 30, 2013 Posted September 30, 2013 Hi Graf.. thank you for informations, this miniature dont belong to me, i thought about buying it, but is already sold (and i am not the one who bought it)... I have forgotten about the auction end...
jaeger7 Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Hi everybody ! Just to keep the topic going - here is a 4th class 1 st grade which I got a few days ago. It is not in perfect condition, but I like it. Is it possible to name a manufactorer ? Is it of Bulgarian origine or made by a foreign company ? Regards jaeger7
Graf Posted October 4, 2013 Author Posted October 4, 2013 Hi, I do not like to upset you however it looks someone has tried to created history. The 1941 Models were made in Germany and the quality was excellent. Most of them were given to German Officers This one looks like a Republican issue -Bulgarian maker and with added central ring (with 1941) Compare this one with the New World posting. There is something that bothers me about this Order Sorry.! Graf
jaeger7 Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Hello Graf, you did not upset me - I would like to learn more about Bulgarian orders... This piece does clearly show a lower quality than some other 1941 4th classes - therefor my question about the maker. I got this piece really cheap - the dealer had no idea what it was and it came from the estate of a former German officer, unfortunatly without any papers. If it has been made up from two pieces - than it has not been done to fool the collector - maybe it was a replacment for the damaged awarded cross made on behalf of the owner ... ? Lots of maybes, maybe... Regards jaeger7
Graf Posted October 8, 2013 Author Posted October 8, 2013 Hi Jaeger7, It is obvious that there are two pieces . The back cover disc is missing The Order is not fake. It has the features of the low quality made Regency/republican Models - at the end of WW2 and after During this period Bulgaria switched sides and went to War with Germany, later became a Peoples Republic. Therefore it is very unlikely this to be replacment piece. During WW2 -1941 Model was made in Germany and the qality was extremly good. It is very likely that the FirmC.F. Zimmermann, Pforzheim, because quite a good number of damaged Bulgarian items were recovered from the damaged by fire factory of this firm. After Bulgaria switched the sides and went to war with Germany the Orders was made by Bulgarian private makers and the quality droped significantly. I suspect because the 1941 Model demands beter prices, that someonr tried to "upgrade" a republican Model to WW2 one. Unfortunately, thre are few pieces at the moment on the market of "upgraded" bulgarian Orders This topic was discussed in the Forum ''"fake Bulgarian Orders" ...or as you said the original 1941 Order was demaged and the central part was adapted to a republican Model, however i doubt that it was done by the German Officer. This is just my opinion ..what is the truth.. only the person who did it knows Best Graf
new world Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 In my opinion this is a put together from Republican award (base) and 1941 issued cross (center section with date 1941).
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