Ed_Haynes Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 This has been discussed at some length over on the OMSA forum, athttp://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=650but the US Air Force has decided to "delete" the Air Force Good Conduct Medal. The reasoning (ha!) is obscure and no one yet knows whether the disease will spread to the other services. Why have a medal just for enlisted personnel when you can have 15 or 20 meaningless ribbons for all?!FYI and comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Maybe nobody in the Air Force is behaving any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Maybe nobody in the Air Force is behaving any more? I agree. We have so much crap we are issued/awarded that it is almost embarrassing. I have a few that I am very proud of. Most are just useless. I would prefer a pay raise or a token cash reward. LOL As far as the good conduct medal is concerned... it has a lot of history. Back when they were conceived, they were awarded to indicate a period of Honorable Service(back in the day where in 99.9% of the time, this would be the only medal an enlisted man would receive in his entire career of 20+ years). "The Good Conduct Medal is one of the oldest military decorations of the United States military. The Navy Good Conduct Medal was first issued 1869, followed by a Marine version in 1896. The Coast Guard Good Conduct Medal was issued in 1923 and the Army Good Conduct Medal in 1941. The Air Force was the last service to create a Good Conduct Medal in 1963."(per the below link)There are a lot of ribbons and medals I could imagine getting rid of before the Good Conduct Medal(and they were listed on the OSMA site), that have no tradition tied to them. The sad thing is that I do see the other services following suit if this rule sticks.I found a lot of great info in the history of this medal on this site:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Conduct_MedalAlthough I feel the US is too "medal happy", it is my opinion that getting rid of the Good Conduct medal is a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 The Reserve Counterparts:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_Good_Conduct_Medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFloyd Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 There's an article in the latest Air Force Times, where an AF spokesman says the decision was based on the rationale that "good conduct" is expected.That's the same rationale used to explain why officers do not receive Good Conduct Medals. It sends the wrong message and follows in the tradition of dopy decisions by the Uniform Board, which also decided that the folds of the mess dress cummerbund must face upward.Sleep well tonight, America, your Air Force Uniform Board is on guard.Jeff FloydUSAF 1969-1989 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 "which also decided that the folds of the mess dress cummerbund must face upward"I did NOT know that. On those one-hand occasions in life where I have been forced to appear in such entirely civilianBond... James Bondattire, I have been doing the exact OPPOSITE... on the crumbs-and-canape-shedding premise.Yet there IS a certain wily frugality to being able to sneak snackables home in ones personal amidships when otherwise pocketless. BTW, if good conduct is "expected," then why NOT do in the plethora of passed basic training and kept clean shoes and I went to sensitivity training class things? Better to keep one "real" one and return it to some meaning, than have rows of Soviet jubilee style blather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I'd love to see Rick in his tux with frackbar. If good conduct is expected then why is it worthy of recognition? If there must be a medal then make one appropriate for all services on the same ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 There's an article in the latest Air Force Times, where an AF spokesman says the decision was based on the rationale that "good conduct" is expected.But dont guys get awards for passing basic training and a whole host of stuff that i assume is "Expected" as well?As an outsider, there seems to be soooooo many US ribbons that really leave me wondering why on earth anyone would get an award for such a thing, and then there is a good conduct medal, which most armies around the world have in some shape or form (not the French, but if we had, I woulda had it ;-), and that get axed...I guess someone priorities are screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 But dont guys get awards for passing basic training and a whole host of stuff that i assume is "Expected" as well?As an outsider, there seems to be soooooo many US ribbons that really leave me wondering why on earth anyone would get an award for such a thing, and then there is a good conduct medal, which most armies around the world have in some shape or form (not the French, but if we had, I woulda had it ;-), and that get axed...I guess someone priorities are screwed up.Chris,My point exactly... While good conduct is not "expected", the fact a person is wearing a uniform should be enough "proof" that they graduated boot camp. (Army and Air Force are the only two services that have this ribbon!!). Another method of dupication is the Air Force Longevity Ribbon... I think that they receive these every four years! Why have that one when the Good Conduct Medal is awarded every three?There are many occassions where I have seen people not receive their Good Conduct Medal. Such an incident happened last week. A 22 year old member was stopped by the police for drinking and driving. He not only has to deal with the civil authorities, he also has to face diciplinary action within the military as well... which cost him his Good Conduct Medal. In the Coast Guard, certain Medals are worth points toward advancement. Each award of the Good Conduct Medal is worth one point.A ribbon I wish the military would get rid of the the Honor Graduate Ribbon(from Boot Camp). Who cares how well someone does in basic training... The fact the member is wearing a uniform and being advanced up the ranks should be enough to recognize a member's ambition and drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) And the US Navy has a sea service ribbon. To recognise sea service . . . by the navy . . . !! And the army give something for having seen dirt? (Maybe that is what the Service Ribbon is for?)Our problem, friends, is that we anticipate that anyone cares (other than folks like us and a few of the folks who get these things) and, moreover, that there is any overriding "policy" lying behind all this. I think they just make it up as they go along, in total isolation from any other decisions, always have, always will. Edited February 14, 2006 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFloyd Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 There certainly is no visible overarching policy, but certain trends do appear over time.In the 1950s, the Air Force had the "plain blue suit" policy, which meant that there were no more patches, few badges (mostly wings), and ribbons came with medals. It was common to see a junior officer with no ribbons during his first four years. Once Vietnam cranked up, the policies changed dramatically. Awards were made liberally in-theater (in part to keep the troops happy), and when folks came home they had lots of ribbons. After Vietnam, junior officers and airmen had only one or two ribbons, while their bosses had several rows. The flood of junk ribbons started to fill that perceived need. It wasn't long before you could graduate from basic training with four ribbons (National Defense Service, Small Arms Expert Marksman, Honor Graduate, Training). Many folks expected that flow of ribbons to continue forever. After all, going home to see the folks after basic training and showing up with a row of ribbons was cool. Now you can toss in the GWOT medals, several unit awards, Outstanding Military Volunteer Medal, etc, and it's very likely that noone can turn off the spigot. It may be that the Uniform Board is trying to do that, but they aren't in a position to drive the entire awards system and that's the key. A single, coherent policy that is not based on quelling discontent would make sense. However, the power of inertia is great and the amount of moaning and groaning that would accompany a complete overhaul of the system would be deafening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 I don't know if it helps, but similar trends exist globally. Many of the things Jeff said, my co-author and I have said in a forthcoming book on Indian awards. Malaise is global. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 And the US Navy has a sea service ribbon. To recognise sea service . . . by the navy . . . !! And the army give something for having seen dirt? (Maybe that is what the Service Ribbon is for?)Actually, it's the "Sea Service Deployment Ribbon"... I've got three of them and they mean more to me than any other award that I have. In my opinion, this is one of the very few ribbons in the military that actually MEANS something... I've seen a lot of decorations given out for things questionable, and unit awards received by people onboard a unit for a single day within the period of eligibility. BUT, for the SSDR, you need to have spent at least 90 consecutive days away from homeport during a 12 month period assigned to an afloat unit. That's something that I think is pretty respectable. Now, I do like your idea for the Army dirt ribbon.... As far as ribbons that we could do away with, I'm hip with getting rid of the Air Force and Army basic training ribbons, as well as the Army Service Ribbon. Being willing to sacrifice some myself, I think you could have the Navy's pistol/rifle marksman ones, and could also get rid of the Volunteer Service Medal (why do we wear a medal in uniform for things we do while not in uniform? I don't get it...) The Army could also get rid of the NCO course ribbons, the Air Force could get rid of their longevity ribbons, and combine their short and long deployment ribbons together for a single deployment one. Wouldn't we all be happier then??? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 The problem is, they need to put Folks Like Us in charge of making policy. But they never will. We could redesign the system in a day. But it won't happen.When the Brits sat down to rework their honours system, the OMRS offered advice. Their noses are still hurting from the door slamming in their faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg.hays Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 "As far as ribbons that we could do away with, I'm hip with getting rid of the Air Force and Army basic training ribbons, as well as the Army Service Ribbon. Being willing to sacrifice some myself, I think you could have the Navy's pistol/rifle marksman ones, and could also get rid of the Volunteer Service Medal (why do we wear a medal in uniform for things we do while not in uniform? I don't get it...) The Army could also get rid of the NCO course ribbons, the Air Force could get rid of their longevity ribbons, and combine their short and long deployment ribbons together for a single deployment one. Wouldn't we all be happier then???"This is a very interesting thread guys, and I can agree and disagree with parts of the above statement. I agree that the volunteer service medal should be discontinued as far as eligibilty for wear on the service uniform. What does it have to do with your duty performance? Keep it as a civillian award. As far as the Army basic training ribbon...there isn't one. When you graduate basic training you recieve the National Defense Service Medal, the Army service ribbon, and the Global War on Terrorism service medal. Now I think the GWOT service medal is BS and needs to go. It is redundant...we have medals for Iraq and Afganistan and well another ribbon just for joining is ridiculous as I pointed out already you get two when you complete basic. The two you get after basic seem warranted to me, National defense and the branch you chose to serve in...I see no over indulgence there. As far as the Good Conduct Medal, it needs to stay..hands down ...no question. Of those in my company eligible for this medal over the past three years of service only about 40% of us remained eligible and were awarded this medal. It is not as easy as many think. And good conduct being expected should be the norm....but it should also be positively reenforced. And the sad truth is good conduct 100% of the time over a three year period in the Army is certainly not the norm. Furthermore, I have seen outstanding soldiers and NCO's recieve UCMJ for the silliest of infractions...wont get into details but suffice it to say they were unwarranted reprimands......resulting in the loss of their Good Conduct Medal. I know of my medals my Good Conduct Medal is one that I am very proud to have earned. The Airforce is making a huge mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonytdyagain Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 It is always nice to see other people thinking the way we do on the active AF side of things. There used to be a time when an AF good conduct medal was actually earned. One Letter of Reprimand or Article 15 would make you ineligible to receive the AFGCM for that three year period. But then you started over again for the next period. I know quite a few people that didn't get one because of them getting in trouble. But that was back in the days that if you got in trouble, the AF rehabilitated you (if needed) slapped you with paperwork, and sent you back to work. Today, all you have to do is just about look at someone the wrong way and they walk you to the gate.A friend of mine, 28 year SMSgt, was court martialled, reduced to Airman Basic and had three months pay taken for kicking the @#&% out of a Major in a bar in the South Pacific. The only reason he didn't make Chief, was because of that minor infraction. Today, he would have gone to jail and then kicked out. By the way, the Major started the fight over a girl, and he was kicked out for conduct unbecoming.So believe me, we on the active duty side don't want to see our AFGCM go away. Alot of us senior NCOs at my base have lodged a protest through the First Sergeant and Command Chiefs channels about it. If the uniform board can approve corn rolls for women's hairdos, they can reinstate our medal.CheersTony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Excellent ... my precious's will be worth something ... in say .... 100 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 and these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Chris,My point exactly... While good conduct is not "expected", the fact a person is wearing a uniform should be enough "proof" that they graduated boot camp. (Army and Air Force are the only two services that have this ribbon!!). Another method of dupication is the Air Force Longevity Ribbon... I think that they receive these every four years! Why have that one when the Good Conduct Medal is awarded every three?There are many occassions where I have seen people not receive their Good Conduct Medal. Such an incident happened last week. A 22 year old member was stopped by the police for drinking and driving. He not only has to deal with the civil authoritieshe also has to face diciplinary action within the military as well... which cost him his Good Conduct Medal., Hallo Paul R, Shame, Shame, on a guy of 22, getting stopped for drinking and driving then he deserved to get nailed both by the Civil police and the Military for doing something so stupid. And then if losing his precious good conduct medal is part of the procedure then though, he obviously was not thinking about his GCM while filling his face with booze. Self-inflicted incident.Dont get me wrong in my time in the military over 21 and a half years I sank a lot of booze, but never when carrying a weapon, and it was common practise for us to remove the car keys from any comrade who was over the limit, there being enough taxis to get us back to base after a night out. Kevin in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev in Deva Posted April 17, 2006 Share Posted April 17, 2006 Why have a medal just for enlisted personnel when you can have 15 or 20 meaningless ribbons for all?!FYI and comment.Hallo Ed_Haynes, I came across this on an Australian Site DiggerHistoryhttp://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/32360/200510...ls/too-many.htmwhen the page opens up please click on the link under: Welcome to the PANDORA Archiveas the original site has been archived for historical and preservation purposes very appropriate with regards 15 or 20 meaningless ribbons Kevin in Deva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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