christerd Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 This 2nd class Liberty Cross was sold on EBAY recently , I "borrowed" the pics from there. The ribbon is of course wrong , this ribbon is for 3rd and 4th class but besides that the front lookes quite ok . But the back ?? Seller says it is a German made version ? Is it one of the few new versions without year ? I have never seen a 2nd class 1941 + so I´m totally lost here. the price was more than 200 Euro Any Finnish experts out there ? Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 The Liberty Cross in any class without a year on the reverse is post Continuation War and these are rare. I don't collect post war but for a good price I wouls have picked up for display and/or trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jani Tiainen Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Hello, That cross is not Finnish made. Post 1945 crosses that are official awards have both sides enamelled and they are made in silver. This reminds me of the post war replacements made by Steinheuer & Luck (I have seen quite a few of them, but never in original medal bar). I have few different 3rd and 4th class crosses with swords made by S&L in my collection. They do not have year on reverse and the cross arms are slightly curved on the edges. S&L manufactured these "replacements" for German veterans without the authorization from Finland. I know that S&L made all the classes of Crosses of Liberty - even Mannerheim crosses (Only 191 awarded and all to Finns), but I am not sure if this is one made by them. I just recently got two exactly similar crosses of 2nd class from Estonia. When I saw this one on eBay I first thought they are some new fakes coming from eastern Europe - however I contacted the seller and he was actually German guy I have known several years. He told me this came from veteran and is German replacement (?). So I dont know what these actually are for sure... I will post pictures of mine tomorrow. There are few interesting details. Jani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jani Tiainen Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I will post pictures of mine tomorrow. There are few interesting details. Jani First, pictures of the 2nd class crosses I recently got - both with swords and without Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jani Tiainen Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 First, pictures of the 2nd class crosses I recently got - both with swords and without I think these are the same as the cross pictured from eBay. 1. Has anyone seen these before ? I have never seen 2nd class like this before 2013. 2. I have not yet checked, but it seems, that at least my crosses might actually have original Finnish made wreath(?) 3. As you see from the picture attached, the center is actually for the Order of the White Rose (with blue enamel behind the rose). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jani Tiainen Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 For comparison, three different Stenheuer & Luck made Crosses of Liberty 3rd class with swords. When looking at these, I would have expected, that S&L 2nd class would be different than the ones pictured above. However, I have no idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jani Tiainen Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 And finally Steinheur & Luck made Mannerheim Cross 2nd class. (They actually manufactured 1st class as well. It is exactly like this 2nd class but without wreath--- so completely different than originals). With best regards, Jani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) Thanks Jani , interesting to know that Steinhauer & Luck have started to make 2nd class Liberty crosses ! When taking in consideration the quite few 2nd class crosses awarded 1918 and 1941-1944 to germans and thinking of the extreme few that are alive today and in need of a replacement cross you wonder .... And since they are somewhat better " Göde" copies in my eyes , the price is Here is my 4th class by S & L. side by side with a genuine 1941 Cross I will keep an eye open for more S&L Liberty crosses , waiting for a 1st class ..... Christer Edited June 8, 2013 by christerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jani Tiainen Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Hello, After doing some research and comparing these 2nd class crosses, which started this topic, I am quite sure they are also made by S&L Jani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Everything post-1945 I have from S&L - Bundesrepublik awards and '57 awards - has their maker's mark. Do the Finnish ones have them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Hi Gents, I just recently spotted 👇and nabbed it! It came from a dealer who buys up collections and is not shy to say ‘copy’ if he should, so I went for it. I got it for £14, I was the only bidder 🤷♂️ Maybe the lack of date, swords & ribbon put people off but luckily I found this thread and that settled it for me. & I was in fact expecting a silver one because the photo lighting wasn’t great (or was my 👀) so happy days so far 😊 Is this one of the S&L manufactured examples discussed above? 3rd class? That was my guess… Any comments welcome as always Gents. cheers tony 🍻 ps it’s the first Finnish award I’ve got 😊 pps On 29/05/2014 at 20:08, Dave Danner said: Everything post-1945 I have from S&L - Bundesrepublik awards and '57 awards - has their maker's mark. Do the Finnish ones have them? Dave, I’ve not found a makers mark on it 👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanH Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 6 hours ago, Farkas said: Hi Gents, I just recently spotted 👇and nabbed it! It came from a dealer who buys up collections and is not shy to say ‘copy’ if he should, so I went for it. I got it for £14, I was the only bidder 🤷♂️ Maybe the lack of date, swords & ribbon put people off but luckily I found this thread and that settled it for me. & I was in fact expecting a silver one because the photo lighting wasn’t great (or was my 👀) so happy days so far 😊 Is this one of the S&L manufactured examples discussed above? 3rd class? That was my guess… Any comments welcome as always Gents. cheers tony 🍻 ps it’s the first Finnish award I’ve got 😊 pps Dave, I’ve not found a makers mark on it 👍 It certainly looks like one of the German made crosses. Yes, it is a 3rd class cross. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRE_A_K Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 I bought these from Germany several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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