Fake Another fake TWM - Josef Preissler Pforzheim

[demir]

Hi,

This medal is found in the USA.

It has Preissler Pforzheim written on its pin. The medal itself is one of the worst made medals I have seen. IMO the pin is added on the fake medal recently. The pin might taken from another lapel pin made by this company.

Best wishes

Demir

[ottomanmedal]

Are we sure that this piece is really a fake piece?

Did any other Collector have seen another example made by this specific company?

If it's fake,what is the purpose of making a fake Star?I am sure making this star will cost more then purchasing a genuine one..

Edited September 23, 2013 by ottomanmedal

[Ulsterman]

I remember seeing these fake IH medals on a reenactors' website @ 3-4 years ago.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am sure making this star will cost more then purchasing a genuine one..

It depends where you make it.... If you order the pins wholesale, I am sure you can find someone who could make the stars for a couple of bucks a piece....

[Auseklis]

Pf you order the pins wholesale...

As Demir pointed out, the pin seems to be original.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Ages ago someone posted a catalog page, a fairly modern one, showing where companies making badges could order all kinds of pins and hardware for the badges they make.

It is economically not worth the trouble for a company to make every possible part of a badge.

I have no idea if the badge shown is good or not, just want to point out that knowing the right people.... and you could have these made for USD5 or less.

Best

Chris

[dond]

Or for a lot less in Pakistan......

[Auseklis]

.... and you could have these made for USD5 or less.

Let me expalin my doubts in that.

If you want a pin holder plate, exactly like these with the 2x3 lines and in the same dimension like the original, you will need to sheet metal stamping tool. Than you would need to put out some volume of pin holder plates, to get your money back. I would guess (not realy my field of expertize) at least several hundred. Has anybody seen any of them?

So I would follow Demir in his assumption that the pin is original.

But on the other hand... You could not start a production of fake stars with the vague hope to obtain enough original pins at a reasonable price (many of these pins are afixed to tinnies that are by far more valuable than a TWM of this quality).

If not more examples of this type pop out of the ground within the next few years, I would follow ottomanmedal. I then would assume that this an interwar produced piece, that is so ugly that it was not accepted by the fast majority of buyers and did survive only in very small numbers.

[Ulsterman]

Ok. that argument makes sense to me. I have argued for a decade that the BB&. co. Pins were actually American made and exported to Germany and then affixed to TWMs made in Germany.

[Chris Boonzaier]

But on the other hand... You could not start a production of fake stars with the vague hope to obtain enough original pins at a reasonable price (many of these pins are afixed to tinnies that are by far more valuable than a TWM of this quality).

You are assuming that this kind of pin is not commercially availible to badge makers up to this day.... :-)

[Auseklis]

You are assuming that this kind of pin is not commercially availible to badge makers up to this day.... :-)

Yes, I do (to make it clear, it's about the holder plate).

[ottomanmedal]

We have many experienced GMIC collector members here.I have been collecting for over 10 years and never seen any other piece like this.When a piece appears it doesn't mean necessarly it's a fake piece!

I would recommend instead of calling the piece a "fake" just research.

Regards

Muhittin

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi Muhittin,

I pass no judgement on originality, my observation is simply that this example would be very easy and cheap to fake.

Best

Chris

[Auseklis]

I pass no judgement on originality, my observation is simply that this example would be very easy and cheap to fake.

Hi Chris,

Obviously you are right on that, but on what scale? How many of this TWMs will you get, if you want a cheap price per piece?

Edited September 24, 2013 by Auseklis

[ottomanmedal]

Hi Muhittin,

I pass no judgement on originality, my observation is simply that this example would be very easy and cheap to fake.

Best

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

Depends where you have it made.

I had a mould made in germany for EUR70, then a silver medal struck and finished for EUR30.... EUR100 total....I could have had as many as I wanted after that for EUR30.... as the mould was already done.

Now these guys....

http://www.alibaba.com/product-tp/142917813/Badge_Insignia_Metal_Badge_Medal_Brass.html

Will make you a badge for EUR0.01 to EUR6.00 depending on what you want....

We, joe average dont know the business... but other folks deal in it every day....

[ottomanmedal]

I do see your point Chris,but why would you take your time and just make one fake piece like that?

Does it really worth that effort,time and the money??

My point is,we have members here collecting for 30-40 years and not even one person have seen any other piece made by the same maker.

Let's say someone wants to make money by making Gallipoli Stars,why this quality?? How could you make money with this quality star??

Why not Godet? Or Meybauer ? I am sure that person would make a fortune if he would go with one of this makers..

regards,

Muhittin

[Chris Boonzaier]

I do see your point Chris,but why would you take your time and just make one fake piece like that?

Does it really worth that effort,time and the money??

My point is,we have members here collecting for 30-40 years and not even one person have seen any other piece made by the same maker.

Let's say someone wants to make money by making Gallipoli Stars,why this quality?? How could you make money with this quality star??

Why not Godet? Or Meybauer ? I am sure that person would make a fortune if he would go with one of this makers..

regards,

Muhittin

Hi,

I will take it point by point... and just as devils advocate as i have NO IDEA if these are good or not...

1) "we have members here collecting for 30-40 years and not even one person have seen any other piece made by the same maker." indeed... but this is also true if Preissler HAD made them... why has noone seen one?

2) "why this quality?? How could you make money with this quality star?? Why not Godet? Or Meybauer ? I am sure that person would make a fortune if he would go with one of this makers.."

quite simply.... if you can get 100 of these for EUR5 a piece, and sell for EUR15 a piece... thats 3 times your investment.

To make a Godet, or a Meybauer, you are going to spend a fortune, for a small return. It would probably cost you more to make than you could sell them for.

Go to the firm in pakistan, spend a little bit, no need to go to any trouble.... and they are delivered to the door.

Once again... I have no idea when these were made, just pointing out how easy it could be.

best

Chris

[ottomanmedal]

Yes, in general if you are planning to make fakes and make money out of it,you will find your way to do it,but my point is specifically this piece.The only piece ever seen by this maker.

[demir]

That is the point Muhittin, this maker (Preissler Pforzheim) was not the maker, IMO somebody else used that makers pin to make this medal.

While the pin was attached, the word Preissler somehow was blurry and some letters at the end was carved by hand.

Edited September 24, 2013 by demir

[demir]

Here are 3 fakes or let's say copies which were not made by the makers written on them.

Rose Schwerin, Rothe Wien and Ges.Gesch (gesetzlich geschützt -protected by law - I think only the pin).

Please read the threads on these medals.

I bought the Rose Schwerin from a seller in Aachen for 250 euros and after discussion in this forum,

I got in touch with the seller and without saying a word he refunded me. The words Rose Schwerin were applied later, even applied twice.

Rose Schwerin:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/47023-turkish-war-medal-made-by-hrose-schwerin/

Rothe-Wien:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/56057-turkish-war-medal-maker-rothe-wien-another-fake/?hl=rothe

Ges. Gesch:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/56058-turkish-war-medal-ges-gesch-sign-on-the-pin/

Rose Schwerin :

Edited September 25, 2013 by demir

[demir]

Here are 3 fakes or let's say copies which were not made by the makers written on them.

Rose Schwerin, Rothe Wien and Ges.Gesch (gesetzlich geschützt -protected by law - I think only the pin).

Please read the threads on these medals.

I bought the Rose Schwerin from a seller in Aachen for 250 euros and after discussion in this forum,

I got in touch with the seller and without saying a word he refunded me. The words Rose Schwerin were applied later, even applied twice.

Rose Schwerin:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/47023-turkish-war-medal-made-by-hrose-schwerin/

Rothe-Wien:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/56057-turkish-war-medal-maker-rothe-wien-another-fake/?hl=rothe

Ges. Gesch:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/56058-turkish-war-medal-ges-gesch-sign-on-the-pin/

Rothe Wien:

Edited September 25, 2013 by demir

[demir]

Rothe Wien:

Ges. Gesch:

[dond]

There are other fake badges made with this pin as well. The uboot badge is one and I believe the A-H pilot's badge is another.

[ottomanmedal]

That is the point Muhittin, this maker (Preissler Pforzheim) was not the maker, IMO somebody else used that makers pin to make this medal.

While the pin was attached, the word Preissler somehow was blurry and some letters at the end was carved by hand.

A German badge made by the same company with the same letters, actually exact same pinback.. So this must be a fake badge as well..