Bavaria Help with ribbon bar

[Paul C]

I found the below ribbon bar for sale and need some help identifing some of the ribbons. What I can see is:

1. BMV4xKr

2. EK2

3. Unknown

4. Unknown

5. HH

6. something from Baden

7. MMV

8. Hindenburg

9. SWA
10. Centennial

What do you think? I am not convinced the bar is good.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Paul C

[Beau Newman]

2 and 3 could be Anhalt I suppose but, why 2 of them? No long service with the Centennial is possible but, unusual. The precedence is off for a 1930's bar with the EK in 2nd place. The construction looks pretty good but, there are some red flags for me on this one.

[redeagleorder]

Very suspicious with the double Anhalt (although extremely farfetchedly one of them could be a Bavaria Agricultural medal, but apart from matching ribbon that is impossible). The thing that sticks out most for me is that it belonged to a Bavarian with an 1897 Centenary medal, yet no long service or Luitpold medal for 1905 or 1911? I don't like it.

[Paul C]

I share your concerns.

[dond]

You sure that Hindy is not the 1870/1 KDM?

[Paul C]

That is possible.

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Paul,

Might it be that The 2 Anhalts shall represent Bavarian Jubilee medals?

The bar looks very small. Maybe the outfitter did not have exact matching ribbons?

Greetings Daniel

[Paul C]

Possible.

[Bavaria]

Hello,

the former bearer should have been a Bavarian veteran, because the Bavarian MVK or MVO is at first position.

In my opition, 3rd and 4th position belongs also to Bavarian medals:

3rd Jubilee medal from 1905 or Luitpold medal (Bronze, awarded 1911 with the Jubilee-medal - this was due to 90th birthday of Prinzregent Luitpold). The 4th position might be for Goldene Hochzeitsjubiläumsmünze 1923 (worn with same ribbon like Jubilee medal).

I just miss a Long service award. Officer with no permanent term of service?

Best regards

Rudi

Edited May 13, 2014 by Bavaria

[redeagleorder]

The colours for the Luitpold and Wedding anniversary medals are red with green edge stripes, whilst these are green with red edge stripes.

[Dave Danner]

It seems odd that a Bavarian tailor wouldn't have Jubilee Medal ribbon stock, and the colors are reversed, as noted above. I suppose a northern tailor might have been asked to make a southern-style ribbon bar, and didn't have the right stock.

The lack of a long service might be possible if he had a Schnalle from before 1913, and didn't bother to swap it for a medal/cross.

I still have two problems, though. First, even without Anhalt, that's five state awards - Bavaria, Prussia, Hamburg, Baden and one of the Mecklenburg Grand Duchies - for an enlisted man. I suppose it is remotely possible for a Hamburg-born Bavarian who served in both 8.IR and 21.IR, but that's really a stretch.

Second, it seems odd for someone who was serving in 1897 and 1905-06, and was receiving multiple decorations from multiple states, to be only an Unteroffizier ohne Portepee. That's who received the MVK 3rd Class with Crown and Swords. Unless those are supposed to be gilt swords, in which case he'd be one of the handful of Feldwebelleutnants who received the 1st Class with Crown and Swords after already having the 1st Class with Swords.

It might be good, but there are too many questions which require creative answers, and at some point, too many is too many.

[Paul C]

Agreed.

[Mike Dunn]

Hi all, I am the one selling the bar. I got the bar from Stogieman a year or so ago. I have sent him an e-mail to talk about the bar. Mike

[Paul C]

If it came from Stogieman then Rick saw it and could not identify the person.

[Stogieman]

Rick research could not ID the recipient, this one fell into what he used to call "ugly" bars.... everything that has passed through my hands prior to being sold was vetted by RR. One thing I learned quickly was if he felt it was bad, it got tossed into the bin.

I cannot remember what 3 and 4 were, sorry, it's been a long, long time. This bar was originally sold about 8 years ago. It came from Germany to me, off to California, that entire collection came back to me and was resold about a year ago with Mike taking a good portion of the collection. Any bar being sold by Mike currently passed through both my and RR's hands,

Hopefully this helps a bit.

[Paul C]

Since it went through Rick's hands that is good enough for me. The discussion here is not that the bar is bad, but only that it is odd and can't be IDed, which is not unusual. Many bars do not conform to regulations and are a personal statement of the wearer.