Jump to content

Netherlands medals collection - help needed (also strange German medallions)


Recommended Posts

Not sure if I am doing something wrong - posted this the other day but it seems to have disappeared.

 

(I am on talewis@bigpond.com if I need to be told to do something better...)

 

Trying to track down what the fourth medal in the Netherlands collection shown is.....I think the first three are:

 

Officer of the Order of Orange Nassau 1892, (military)

Long Service Medal (Officers)

Mobilisation Cross 1914-1918

 

​These are from a box of stuff a friend has, probably from an ancestor. His granddad's surname in the Netherlands was Van Holthe.

 

The rest of the set seems to have some 1936 Olympics medallions, and there are many miscellaneous pieces.

 

​Help grateful received for an ignorant Aussie.

 

Two pix attached.

 

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Fourth Medal is the Swedish Order of the Sword, The bar to the right contains the Luxemburg Oaken Crown and the Waldeck Honour Cross, the miniature group below also contains the Luxemburg Order of the Golden Lion.

Paul

Ah, so he has the fourth medal there because it is foreign?  Thanks - I will check out the Order. Sounds prestigious.  

 

My thinking so far is that this belonged to the person who has the group at top left, and maybe he collected the others...

 

Is there any way to check out who owned the group to the top left?

 

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sure one of our Swedish members would know if there is a list of Dutch recipients of the Order of the Sword, given that it is a military Order quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden. The other group could have been awarded to a relative who happened to live over the border in Luxemburg (don't forget Luxemburg was ruled by the Dutch crown until 1890).

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sure one of our Swedish members would know if there is a list of Dutch recipients of the Order of the Sword, given that it is a military Order quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden. The other group could have been awarded to a relative who happened to live over the border in Luxemburg (don't forget Luxemburg was ruled by the Dutch crown until 1890).

Paul

 

 

Many thanks Paul.  Most interesting this, for an Aussie.

 

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden...

 

Hello Tom and Paul!

 

In this thread http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59369-order-of-seraphim-to-an-italian-officer/ is a discussion as to how an Italian officer was awarded an RSO - Knight of the Order of the Sword - which might be of some interest in this thread too. Royal visits could be quite rewarding not only for senior officers but also for ADCs...

 

/Jonas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sure one of our Swedish members would know if there is a list of Dutch recipients of the Order of the Sword, given that it is a military Order quite likely he was a military attaché to Sweden.

Paul

 

Sorry for these ignorant questions:  Is the Swedish Order of the Sword always awarded with crossed swords?  Even for non-military service?  Or is it when you have an Order of the Swords, there are going to be swords on the Order.

 

Or is it because he was a military attaché and not just a civilian attaché that he would get a Order of the Sword with swords. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry for these ignorant questions:  Is the Swedish Order of the Sword always awarded with crossed swords?  Even for non-military service?  Or is it when you have an Order of the Swords, there are going to be swords on the Order.

 

Or is it because he was a military attaché and not just a civilian attaché that he would get a Order of the Sword with swords. 

 

The Order of the Sword was a military order and swords are an integrated part of the design. To my knowledge, you had to serve in the armed forces to be awarded the Order of the Sword. The Order of the Polar Star and the Order of Vasa was sometimes awarded to officers, but in these cases it had to be on civilian merits, not military. As to attachés, a civilian attaché would probably receive the Order of the Polar Star while the military attaché would receive the Order of the Sword.

 

/Jonas

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Order of the Sword was a military order and swords are an integrated part of the design. To my knowledge, you had to serve in the armed forces to be awarded the Order of the Sword. The Order of the Polar Star and the Order of Vasa was sometimes awarded to officers, but in these cases it had to be on civilian merits, not military. As to attachés, a civilian attaché would probably receive the Order of the Polar Star while the military attaché would receive the Order of the Sword.

 

/Jonas

 

 

Tack

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't find any van Holthe when I checked in the "statskalender". But I only sampled a couple of years from 1860-1939 so I guess there is a theoretical chance that he could be in a book I didn't look in. There is also the slim chance he didn't make it to the list if he past away between editions, only living recipient are listed. Most likely place to find him is as a attaché, like Paul and Jonas wrote.

But the good news are that there aren't that many Dutch recipients of the order of the sword. Maybe there's a year stamp on the order, that would help in dating the award.

For those who want to check to lists you can have a go here: (in the book look for Kongl. Svenska Riddare-Ordnarne)

 

http://runeberg.org/statskal/

No foreign awards listed after 1940.

 

You had to be military to get the order of the sword. The first paragraph in the statues says: This order is awarded to officers in the army and navy ... But maybe the sword mix up comes from the fact that the Sign of the sword was awarded with and without swords. The Sign of the sword is not an order, a merit cross for NCOs, but it is a part of the Royal Order of the Sword (not the insignia but the actual order).

 

/Kim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Tom and Paul!

 

In this thread http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59369-order-of-seraphim-to-an-italian-officer/ is a discussion as to how an Italian officer was awarded an RSO - Knight of the Order of the Sword - which might be of some interest in this thread too. Royal visits could be quite rewarding not only for senior officers but also for ADCs...

 

/Jonas

Thanks - checking it out...

 

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the Dutch Army Lists, there is a Jhr. E.W. [Edzard Willem] van Holthe. The title Jhr. [Jonkheer] can be compared with "the Honourable".

 

E.W. van Holthe was born 8-5-1872 and he died 12-7-1945.

His latest rank was a Colonel in the Infantry, posted to the Grenadiers and commanding the 1st Infantry Brigade (consisting of the regiments Grenadiers and Rifles).

When he was pensioned on 1-5-1930, he was promoted to Major-General.

 

His decorations are, according to the Army List 1930:

Order of Oranje-Nassau, Officer

Officers Long Service Decoration, with digit XXXV

Honorary Knight of the Order of St.John

 

The Mobilisation Cross 1914-1918 is not always noted in the Army Lists, because it had to be bought at private expenses. However, he is wearing it in the enclosed photo.

 

I am pretty sure that he owned the group of decorations, and that the Swedish Order was added after he was pensioned.

As a honorary Major-General he was allowed to wear his uniform and decorations on special occasions.

 

I enclose a photo of him, as a Colonel, but without his Royal Order.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the Dutch Army Lists, there is a Jhr. E.W. [Edzard Willem] van Holthe. The title Jhr. [Jonkheer] can be compared with "the Honourable".

 

E.W. van Holthe was born 8-5-1872 and he died 12-7-1945.

His latest rank was a Colonel in the Infantry, posted to the Grenadiers and commanding the 1st Infantry Brigade (consisting of the regiments Grenadiers and Rifles).

When he was pensioned on 1-5-1930, he was promoted to Major-General.

 

His decorations are, according to the Army List 1930:

Order of Oranje-Nassau, Officer

Officers Long Service Decoration, with digit XXXV

Honorary Knight of the Order of St.John

 

The Mobilisation Cross 1914-1918 is not always noted in the Army Lists, because it had to be bought at private expenses. However, he is wearing it in the enclosed photo.

 

I am pretty sure that he owned the group of decorations, and that the Swedish Order was added after he was pensioned.

As a honorary Major-General he was allowed to wear his uniform and decorations on special occasions.

 

I enclose a photo of him, as a Colonel, but without his Royal Order.

 

That would indicate he received his Officers Long Service Decoration with digit XL on the bar in 1930 just before he was pensioned?

Edited by saxcob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He was appointed 2nd Lt. on 24-7-1893, so he would qualify for the digit XL in 1933, so after being pensionned, and as far as I can tell from the Army Lists he did not serve in the Dutch Indies (service in the tropics counting double for service time). The records I have give no information about his life and career after 1930.

The fact, that his medals are mounted in military style lead to the conclusion that they would be worn on a uniform.

As I pointed out before, he was allowed to wear a uniform after 1930.

I will have a look at the commemorative book of the Guards Regiment of Grenadiers & Rifles 1929-1939, perhaps his name shows up as a member of some committee or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

W.R. Westra van Holthe (born 1888) was a rather insignificant conscript Reserve Officer of the Infantry:

26-03-1909, 2nd Lt.

26-03-1913, 1st Lt.

01-12-1920, hon. discharged

 

He would never have had this combination of medals and decorations.

On account of his service he could only have qualified for the 1914-18 Mobilization Cross

Edited by Odulf
Link to comment
Share on other sites

W.R. Westra van Holthe (born 1888) was a rather insignificant conscript Reserve Officer of the Infantry:

26-03-1909, 2nd Lt.

26-03-1913, 1st Lt.

01-12-1920, hon. discharged

 

He would never have had this combination of medals and decorations.

On account of his service he could only have qualified for the 1914-18 Mobilization Cross

Maybe he was a medal collector then, and not the recipient.  

 

Strange he would have had the Olympics stuff in the same box.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Blog Comments

    • As a theology student my professor, a much published former Naval chaplain, set us an essay, saying that if we could answer that successfully we would be guaranteed  a good degree "Which of the gospel writers was the biggest liar, discuss."   I got a good mark, but  don't want to be burned for heresy.   P
    • As my father used to say: "Tain't so much Pappy's a liar - he just remembers big."  
    • Brian: First, let me say that I always enjoy reading your blog and your "spot on" comments.  Another fine topic with such a broad expansion into so many different facets.  I had watched this a week or two ago and when reading your blog, it reminded me of this great quote.   There is a great video on the origins of "Who was Murphy in Murphy's Law"   Anyway, about mid way through this video, there is this great quote and I think it sums it up quite well to your statem
    • I've received word from the Curator that she has permission to re-open this summer.   We're already making plans for a November event at the Museum.   Michael
    • I recall I did the same on hot days at Old Fort York back in 1973-74 - wool uniforms, and at 90F they would let you take your backpack off.   Michael
×
×
  • Create New...