Romania Romania - romanian orders given to germans during ww2

[westfale]

Hello!

Does anyone of you now something of romanian ordes - especially the order of the crown and the order of the star of romania - given to german officers during the war at the eastern front? It would be great if someone can give me some details about the orders and about the amount of them given as i asked before!

Thanks a lot in advance

westfale

[Gerd Becker]

Hello!

Does anyone of you now something of romanian ordes - especially the order of the crown and the order of the star of romania - given to german officers during the war at the eastern front? It would be great if someone can give me some details about the orders and about the amount of them given as i asked before!

Thanks a lot in advance

westfale

Hello and welcome from S?d-Westfalen

Romanian Orders were definately give to german soldiers in WW 2. I could find one example of a Medalbar in the collection of our member Gary B. :

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5755...er+of+the+crown

(See post #11)

I have seen more Medalbars with Romanian Awards, so it wasn?t that unusual...

best,

Gerd

[Kev in Deva]

Hello!

Does anyone of you now something of romanian ordes - especially the order of the crown and the order of the star of romania - given to german officers during the war at the eastern front? It would be great if someone can give me some details about the orders and about the amount of them given as i asked before!

Thanks a lot in advance

westfale

Hallo westfale, I saw your request on the forum, I am living in Romania now, formaly I lived in Bavaria but originaly I come from Ireland and maybe I can help you a little with regards information about Romanian awards to Germans.

There is no instant source, listing awards to Germans because under the Communists it was forbidden to have such information, only recently are state records being opened and read, and a lot was destroyed years ago, there is however some information regarding awards to Airforce / Luftwaffe pilots who flew with the Romanians or in the same theatre of combat, again this will take a bit of tracking down as:

a; I dont read or speak Romanian so well.

b; The information has to be found via / through people who might have no internet connection.

Romanian Orders:

Order of the Crown, Star of Romania, Military Virtue Cross, were given in Commander, Caviler / Knight Grade, with swords, normaly the cross hung on the ribbon of military virtue

(if you look at the auction page under medals you will see one I have listed for sale under:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6173 )

also there were lower medals such as the "Crusade Against Comunisum", awarded with different battle bars and the "Strength & Manhood Medal" (Barbatie si Creditia). in III Classes.

The lower awards were freely given to German soldiers by the Romanian military as were German EKs, KVKs and "Winterschlacht im Ostern" and "Krim" Shields given to Romanian officers & troops.

High German awards were also confered on Romanian officers and vice versa.

Kev in Deva.

Edited March 12, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Gary B]

Dear Westfale,

See attached link. if you have any questions please PM me.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3922

I have 3 medal bars with Romanian awards on them. Typically I have seen the Order of the crown, Order of the star and recently saw a Cross of Queen Marie (sold by Kai Winkler and owned by one of the members on the site).

Hope this helps.

Gary B

[J Temple-West]

Probably the most common Rumanian award/medal issued to members of the German forces was the ?Crusade against Communism? medal.

Here are a couple of examples.

Medal bar.

[J Temple-West]

Single medal showing various campaign bars.

[J Temple-West]

Reverse.

[J Temple-West]

A typical award document.

[Dave Danner]

I don't have a copy handy, but when I was doing some research at the National Archives, I came across a list of officers attending the wartime General Staff officer course. Most were majors and captains. The list included awards, and rather a large number of them had Romanian orders and decorations. Mostly Orders of the Crown and Orders of the Star, but also a few Medals for Steadfastness and Loyalty.

[westfale]

Thanks to all for the information, for the the good pictures and also for the links!

Two question after reading all this: What is the difference between the "normal" red/blue ribbon - not the ribbon for valor! - and the war-ribbon both given to the star of romania with swords? In my oppinion I think the swords indicates "in the fire" or "in the war", so why the difference also with the ribbon? Could someone give me the reason why?

and also

@ Dave:

Could it be correct that most of the awards given to the germans are given to members of the staffs and not the "normal" officers at the front? I ask you because I have seen in the past some pictures of men who get romanian awrds, and all of them were members of the "generalstab"!

Again, thanks to all - and sorry for my english!

crusader

Edited March 14, 2006 by westfale

[dragos03]

From 1932, the Order of the Star (military version with swords) had several ribbons:

- red with two silver stripes (for officers during peacetime)

- red with two silver and two golden stripes (war ribbon but not for bravery in front of the enemy)

- red with two blue stripes ("Military Virtue" ribbon, only for bravery)

Before 1932, the ribbon was red with 4 blue stripes.

Many awards were given to German staff members but also many were given to combat troops. But usually, when a German unit cooperating with a Romanian unit distinguished itself in combat, the Romanians awarded the German officers and not the soldiers/NCOs. That's why officer awards (Order of the Star, of the Crown. of Queen Mary) are more often encountered in German groups than the Romanian awards for lower ranks (Medal of Military Virtue, Medal for Loyal Service, Cross for Loyal Service, Medal for Steadfastness and Loyalty).

Other Romanian awards i've seen in German groups: Order of Aeronautical Virtue, Medal of Aeronautical Virtue, Order of Michael the Brave (the highest Romanian bravery award for officers), Medal of Sanitary Merit. Some German pilots received the Romanian badges for pilots or observers. I guess some Medals for Naval Virtue were also awarded to German sailors in the Black Sea. And of course, the "Crusade against communism" medal.

[Ulsterman]

An illustration:

[Kev in Deva]

An illustration:

Hallo Ulsterman

I thought you might like to see two of my Romanian awards given to German troops in WW2, one for the upper rank and one for the lower. Both were bought at a flea-market in Bavaria about 5 years ago. Before I moved to live in Romania.

One is the CROWN OF ROMANIA, with swords, for Knight, military model, (1938) silvered, on original ribbon

and mounted on a typical German Spange.

The other is the SERVICIU CREDINCIOS Cross with swords for military merit. Again with a typical German metal spange covered in black felt.

Kevin in Deva.

[Kev in Deva]

An illustration:

A couple more shots including two of the front and back of the Romanian Military Virtue Ribbon award for bravery in combat, this piece is a Romanian model with the typical hook and eye style favoured by the Romanians.

Kev in Deva

[Ulsterman]

Nice German mounts there. You got a good deal at the flea market.

I ahve seen a number of Wehrpasses where the Crusade medal is the only medal a German soldier got-usually to Nachrichten types.

I have never seen one awarded to a civvy-but somebody in the USA is doing research on these awards over in the archives this Summer.

[Guest Rick Research]

A problem with German wear of Rumanian awards-- particularly on ribbon bars-- was that the German military effects outfitters back home often did not have or did not use (or know about) the newest "correct" version of ribbons, so they used what they had in old stock.

This presumably General Staff officer had a Japanese Order of the Sacred Treasure, two Rumanian war orders on the same "red blue" ribbon (the first with French style "barrette" indicating "Kleindekoration" wear of a Commander's neck grade award), and then the Order of the Finnish Lion with Swords and Finnish Cross of Liberty-Military 2nd Class with 2nd award device:

[attachmentid=31072]

Notice that this officer did not have either the German 1941/42 East Medal OR the Rumanian Crusade Against Communism Medal.

[Kev in Deva]

Nice German mounts there. You got a good deal at the flea market.

I have seen a number of Wehrpasses where the Crusade medal is the only medal a German soldier got-usually to Nachrichten types.

I have never seen one awarded to a civvy-but somebody in the USA is doing research on these awards over in the archives this Summer.

Hallo Ulsterman Great pictures,

Looking at the pictures you posted of two Romanian soldiers, one in civilian attire the other in uniform, my interpratation of the medals are:

Civilian Set:

German Iron Cross II Class,

Romanian Military Virtue Cross on Combatant ribbon,

Ostfront Medal,

Romanian Serviciu Credincios Cross,

Crusade against Communisum 1941 Medal. (with face out).

Carol 100 Aniversary 1839 -1939 Medal.

Romanian Soldier Set:

Romanian Serviciu Credincios Cross,

Romanian Serviciu Credincios Medal,

Romanian Barbatie si Credinta Medal with swords.

Romanian Crusade Against Communisum 1941 Medal & Bar. (rear) out.

They both appear to be wearing the corresponding ribbon bars above the medals, with the Civilian-Soldier having the EK2 Ribbon & Ostfront ribbon (?) on the jacket lapel.

While the soldiers has the Ostfront ribbon on his lapel. (he might also have some insignia fixed to the ribbon bars but its hard to detirmine.

I attach also pictures of a typical Romanian ribbon bar, these were inserted into loops sown on to the tunic.

This bar is for the Romanian medals:

Romanian Barbatie si Credinta Medal with swords. (1913)

Crossing of the Danube, 2nd Balkan War 1913.

Cross/Medal of Faithful Service.

40th Aniversary of Carol 1.

Kev in Deva

[Paul R]

Nice German mounts there. You got a good deal at the flea market.

I ahve seen a number of Wehrpasses where the Crusade medal is the only medal a German soldier got-usually to Nachrichten types.

I have never seen one awarded to a civvy-but somebody in the USA is doing research on these awards over in the archives this Summer.

I am still trying to figure out the situation in this photo? Is this photo post war? These guys do not look happy to be there, yet at the same time I cannot see prisoners lined up with medals.

[Kev in Deva]

I am still trying to figure out the situation in this photo? Is this photo post war? These guys do not look happy to be there, yet at the same time I cannot see prisoners lined up with medals.

Hallo Paul,

I can't see the photo being in post-war Romania as the Russians had control, and the wearing of German medals would have had dire effects, I believe Royal Romanian awards were quickly hidden as well.

Again if P.O.W.'s the civilian men and women would have been seperated from the military group, it looks like they are hearing the latest (bad) news on the current military situation from the Romanian Officer.

The whole group appear to be of Romanian soldiers and the guy in civil attire, with hat is obviously a veteran, who could have been discharged on medical grounds, hard to tell because of the position he is in, but the right sleeve of the jacket might be empty (or the other possibility a leg wound).

He has the Romanian Cross for military merit hanging on the ribbon of military virtue. after the EK2, idicating a brave deed in combat. And his ribbon bar appears to have ben sewn directly to the jacket. I cant imagine any other reason for him to be dress so.

Kevin in Deva.

[Carol I]

Romanian Orders were definately give to german soldiers in WW 2. I could find one example of a Medalbar in the collection of our member Gary B. :

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5755...er+of+the+crown

(See post #11)

The Romanian order in the picture above was a peacetime award.

[Carol I]

The order below however was a wartime award, albeit not for direct contact with the enemy.

Romanian medals

[Carol I]

I am still trying to figure out the situation in this photo? Is this photo post war?

The photo was taken during the war as the officer facing the crowd appears to be Marshal Antonescu.

[Ulsterman]

Yes-it was some sort of official press photo. It has the original press tag on the back from Jan. 1944 and was later reprinted in the 1966 OVerlag German book "1944".

The men are all vets and that's the Marshal himself.

[stewy]

I've got this. Stewy

[Kev in Deva]

I've got this. Stewy

A picture would help.

Kevin in Deva. :beer: