IrishGunner Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) The Bronze Star with V/Air Medal/ARCOM likely is a top row. With the bottom row starting with either a Good Conduct Medal (if enlisted) or a NDSM (if officer) and then a campaign medal like a Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or Vietnam Service Medal (and maybe a Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal). The ARCOM/AAM/Army Reserve Components Achievement Medal could be the complete deal for a for an officer (Good Conduct Medal ranking in precedence above the reserve component medal) serving in the Reserves after 1971 in the period 1975-1989 when no NDSM was authorized. The ARCOM/AAM/NDSM could be the complete deal for a company grade Army officer serving during the Cold War era with no joint assignments. And he/she decided to put out the cash for mess dress before most of his peers did so...usually when they reached senior captain/major. The Air Force NCO bar is a nice one with a lot of joint assignments. Added: Oh, I quite agree that not every officer had a lot of medals as company grade officers. (I had two until I was a senior captain.) Note I originally posted the above comments moments before your response. What I'm saying is that most company grade officers with few medals didn't usually spend the money for a mess dress uniform on which they could wear two or three medals. Certainly, some did...but it is unusual. And I still believe it isn't possible that the Airlift bar is a "top" bar. There aren't a lot of campaign medals after the World War II Army Occupation Medal that would make sense as a bottom row, especially with no achievement awards before the Good Conduct Medal. It's possible that it stands alone...as I said, for a very proud vet of the airlift, but what did he wear it on? Edited March 6, 2016 by IrishGunner Added response
IrishGunner Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 Do you have any with a company grade officer in mess dress? That's my point. Not that the full authorization of medals is wrong, but that it is unusual for mini medal sets to be this small. Not impossible, but unusual. I would bet a case of good German beer not one of these fine young soldiers own a Mess Dress uniform on which they could wear mini medals.
Uffz. Rohleder Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 22 minutes ago, IrishGunner said: The Bronze Star with V/Air Medal/ARCOM likely is a top row. With the bottom row starting with either a Good Conduct Medal (if enlisted) or a NDSM (if officer) and then a campaign medal like a Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal or Vietnam Service Medal (and maybe a Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal). The ARCOM/AAM/Army Reserve Components Achievement Medal could be the complete deal for a for an officer (Good Conduct Medal ranking in precedence above the reserve component medal) serving in the Reserves after 1971 in the period 1975-1989 when no NDSM was authorized. The ARCOM/AAM/NDSM could be the complete deal for a company grade Army officer serving during the Cold War era with no joint assignments. And he/she decided to put out the cash for mess dress before most of his peers did so...usually when they reached senior captain/major. The Air Force NCO bar is a nice one with a lot of joint assignments. Added: Oh, I quite agree that not every officer had a lot of medals as company grade officers. (I had two until I was a senior captain.) Note I originally posted the above comments moments before your response. What I'm saying is that most company grade officers with few medals didn't usually spend the money for a mess dress uniform on which they could wear two or three medals. Certainly, some did...but it is unusual. And I still believe it isn't possible that the Airlift bar is a "top" bar. There aren't a lot of campaign medals after the World War II Army Occupation Medal that would make sense as a bottom row, especially with no achievement awards before the Good Conduct Medal. It's possible that it stands alone...as I said, for a very proud vet of the airlift, but what did he wear it on? Maybe someone addet the air lift device later. Compared to the two mini medals it looks nearly brand new. The Vietnam bar was a enlistet bar. If you want i call him to send me a pic so we can See the complete bar. Its funny that we cant keep the bar complete - every one of us will keep his row This were also the first bar we ever found.
IrishGunner Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) I found this young corporal and sergeant, but I couldn't find an Army lieutenant or captain. (Of course, recent combat vets; so, they have a bit more than a Cold War era soldier.) So, other ranks and subalterns certainly do buy/wear mess dress and miniature medals. It's just not usual in my opinion, which makes me see small groups as possibly incomplete. Seems more common for company grade officers in the Air Force: Like I said, not impossible for small mini groups. Just very unusual for the Army. And in my opinion "unusual" means it is worth asking the extra questions to be sure something is genuine. (And tailor made does not mean it's authentic.) On the other hand, Navy groups tend to be small as I understand their tradition is to wear the "top three". Paul might confirm this... Edited March 6, 2016 by IrishGunner
Uffz. Rohleder Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 I have a couple pre gwot army band pictures - the officers there have two and three pace mini medal bars to - even in the same constalition as the one i shown here. No they are not per se authentic but in my opinion more authentic then simple slide on mini medal bars. For such simple mini medal bars - for which i never payed more than 5€ - its way to much work to assemble those cheap medals like this, saw them together and then saw felt on the back. Not sayinga faker wouldnt do that... but on this bar... it seems very unlikly.
IrishGunner Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) On an Army band uniform, small mini groups make perfect sense. Army band uniforms are unit issue items because they are required for performances. Band members do not have to purchase those items. Same for ceremonial units like the Old Guard in Washington, DC. However, for everyone else, mess dress uniforms are optional and therefore, private purchase and expensive. Of course, officers have to buy all uniforms. Again, expensive. I am old, but in my day, it was rare that an officer bought a mess dress uniform before being at least a senior captain or a major. Even rarer for an enlisted soldier until they were a senior NCO. Often officers waited until they attended Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, KS - also the headquarters of Marlow White, a famous military tailor since 1879 - probably not a coincidence. You are right, it doesn't seem likely that a "faker" would go to the trouble for such common medals. But probably more common than we as collectors would like... And I've distracted this thread long enough...maybe I should go scan my "small" miniature set (made by Marlow White by the way) to bring the thread back to topic. Edited March 6, 2016 by IrishGunner
Uffz. Rohleder Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 Yes thats what i thank about to army bands. Here some more minis - minus the GWOT Service Medal and you have the minis i shown It would be nice to see your mini Medal Bar - dont be shy
Hugh Posted March 6, 2016 Posted March 6, 2016 2 hours ago, IrishGunner said: Like I said, not impossible for small mini groups. Just very unusual for the Army. And in my opinion "unusual" means it is worth asking the extra questions to be sure something is genuine. (And tailor made does not mean it's authentic.) On the other hand, Navy groups tend to be small as I understand their tradition is to wear the "top three". Paul might confirm this... I agree, it was fairly common for naval officers in the '60's / '70's to wear the top three, which frequently resulted in no campaign medals showing, especially with WW II veterans. Hugh
Paul R Posted March 16, 2016 Author Posted March 16, 2016 Based upon the medals the Navy Chief is wearing, those are all of his medals, not top three.
ItemCo16527 Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 My uncle John's mini-medal bar representing his 20 years of service.
Paul R Posted May 30, 2016 Author Posted May 30, 2016 Most impressive! Please thank your uncle for his service.
ItemCo16527 Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Thank you, Paul. Sadly, he passed away in 2006. He had been a CW2 with Army CID, and had served just about everywhere: Hawaii, South Korea (1974-75), Vietnam (1967-68), and Germany.
CRBeery Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Still on the jacket. The British medals are mounted as a group. The US are neatly pinned underneath and are seperate from each other. There is a set of holes from another larger set of wings above the CAP. Another one of my three. My nice set! I nearly broke these up. It took me a minute to put the third bar with the other two. The antique dealer I bought them from had them scattered in a big case and individually priced per bar. 1
Chris Boonzaier Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 3 hours ago, CRBeery said: Still on the jacket. The British medals are mounted as a group. The US are neatly pinned underneath and are seperate from each other. There is a set of holes from another larger set of wings above the CAP. A Hi, any idea of who this guy is?
CRBeery Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Chris, No name in the jacket. I purchased this from a lady that sells vintage clothing. I see her twice a year and she tries to bring something military for me.
Paul R Posted June 10, 2016 Author Posted June 10, 2016 Those are some outstanding bars. I like the rescued three row Air Force bar. Are any of those mini's named? Like Chris, I think that the US/British medal bar is something special. I've never seen anyone who actually served in two different countries wear them on the US uniform. Foreign awards received while in the US armed forces- yes. But not award received while in service of another country. Regardless, it is a really interesting set.
CRBeery Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Paul, Nothing is named. I found these antiquing and to those people the history is not really important in most cases. The British/US set is on a jacket like the three gentlemen are wearing in post 30. The center guy has the same rank even. You can see the medals have been on and off a couple times. The lady told me I could have the whole coat for $25! The three bar AF group came from an estate around San Antonio Texas. The guy had a couple of outstanding CBI leather patches that he thought came from the same place. I bought those as well. 1 hour ago, Paul R said: Those are some outstanding bars. I like the rescued three row Air Force bar. Are any of those mini's named? Like Chris, I think that the US/British medal bar is something special. I've never seen anyone who actually served in two different countries wear them on the US uniform. Foreign awards received while in the US armed forces- yes. But not award received while in service of another country. Regardless, it is a really interesting set. Looking at this again - where is the WW2 victory medal?
Hugh Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 Now that's an impressive set of hardware! Any idea who he is?
Sal Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 Gents thank you no idea yet, haven't started the work. I'd think the VN DSO would help narrow it
Sal Posted September 3, 2016 Posted September 3, 2016 ADM GW Steele (top) ADM Yates Stirling (bottom) 1
Paul R Posted November 30, 2016 Author Posted November 30, 2016 Sal, how did you get the names for those wonderful bars? Researching the combinations? I love the Legion of Merit bar as well.
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