My latest neck order

[pieter1012]

Alex,

I don't know about France, but I'm doubtful whether the Hungarian government would have commissioned an Austrian firm like Rothe to make them. In the early twenties the relations between the two countries were bad, to say the least, because of Deutsch Westungarn. Of course they could very well have been made in Hungary. By the way, here is my Hungarian Merit Cross. As I wrote earlier, no marks at all.

Regards, Pieter

[Alex K]

Hi Pieter, I am suddenly seriously in love, I want one, no, 2, or 3 etc, that is so very nice, does it really matter where it's made!?

 

regards

 

Alex

[pieter1012]

Alex,

I also like this order, it is elegant and made of good quality. I especially like the Saint Stephen's crown on the case. After all, from 1922-1946 Hungary was officially a kingdom, under regency of admiral Horthy.

Regards, Pieter

[Stuka f]

Love the box to!

Here I am with, not the best pic, but it shows the vault.

 

[Alex K]

Hi Pieter, my earlier comments were of course light-hearted but the sentiments true, it is an amazing example of that grade of the order and would love to have at least one in my collection. I have in the past been a bit of an add-hoc collector, bit here, bit there etc, with no structure. I decided a while back for the near future at least to concentrate on a couple of specific subjects, these are The Romanian Crown Order (As posted earlier) and the Hungarian Merit Order, hence my enthusiasm, other stuff can wait, unless I spot the obvious bargain, I hope I can pick one up as nice as yours.

 

regards

 

Alex

[Stuka f]

 

2 minutes ago, Alex K said:

I have in the past been a bit of an add-hoc collector, bit here, bit there etc, with no structure

Also the way I collect.

But I do have a theme and that is "adventure"!

That way it allows me to collect many different things, going (or related to!) from boats, trains,planes, cars and militaria....;-)

[Alex K]

Hi Kris, thanks for posting from what I see it has the same level of "Vaulting" as my copy

 

regards

 

Alex

I do trains also (Model ones only) it's an excuse to buy big boys toys, and use my grandson as an excuse!! (Just spotted your British Egypt campaign medal in the background, got one of those in my "Brit" section together with the Khedive star dated 1882)

Edited October 7, 2016 by Alex K

[pieter1012]

I also have no specific theme or structure, although I limit myself to orders and medals, including their award documents.

The Netherlands, being my home country, has always my interest in the field of collecting orders and medals. As I have lived and worked quite some time in Japan, I had the opportunity to add to my Japanese collection. Having been posted in London too, gave me the opportunity to get rid of my money at Spink & Sons that used to have a shop in King street, much to the annoyance of my wife, who compensated by becoming a favorite customer of Harrods (just joking). 

regards, Pieter

 

[Stuka f]

5 hours ago, Alex K said:

I do trains also (Model ones only)

Hey Alex,

models too for me (at the momment! (lol)).

One can be seen at  gmic.co.uk/topic/68863-trains/ I'll ad some more later.

 

 

[Alex K]

Hi Kris, nice, a bit bigger than mine (err..I mean my grandsons)

5 hours ago, pieter1012 said:

I also have no specific theme or structure, although I limit myself to orders and medals, including their award documents.

The Netherlands, being my home country, has always my interest in the field of collecting orders and medals. As I have lived and worked quite some time in Japan, I had the opportunity to add to my Japanese collection. Having been posted in London too, gave me the opportunity to get rid of my money at Spink & Sons that used to have a shop in King street, much to the annoyance of my wife, who compensated by becoming a favorite customer of Harrods (just joking). 

regards, Pieter

 

Out of interest pieter what are prices like at Spinks, one imagines a top-not establishment with equivalent prices, am I wrong

Edited October 7, 2016 by Alex K

[Stuka f]

Never heard of Spinks... thanks for sharing!

[pieter1012]

Stuka, Spink & Sons is a long established firm that many years ago was, as far as I know, the only firm in London that next to British orders and medals, also had a large selection of foreign orders and medals for sale in their offices at King Street close to Picadilly Circus. The orders and medals were stored in wooden cabinets with drawers. One could freely spend hours going through all the drawers admiring the contents, as the staff was always friendly and helpful. Spink also published a monthly Numismatic circular with many orders and medals for sale. I think after it moved from their historic premises in King Street,  it ceased selling orders and medals from stock and concentrated on auctions as it does today.

Alex, personally I don't think the prices Spink asked for their foreign orders and medals were especially high. But in those days there was no internet nor ebay, so it was difficult to make comparisons; I had to make my own judgement before deciding to buy something. But I can add that I never regretted a buy I did at Spink, and they are still part of my collection. Of course there were several other firms and auction houses of repute, such as Sotheby's and Christie's that had regular order and medal auctions, that one could use to estimate value of orders and decorations..  

regards, Pieter

Edited October 9, 2016 by pieter1012

[922F]

Concerning earlier posts asking about Hungarian Order of Merit insignia manufacturers, Vienna firms had branches in Budapest as early as the 1880's  [Jacob lists Schied & Tiller; others cite a Rothe subcontractor or sales office].   Hungarian insignia makers 1914-1941 include Jerouschek and Morzami of Budapest plus Maurer of Sopron.  German sources [Klietmann et al.] usually attribute Regency medals to the State Mint or German contractors.  While these may be potential Order of Merit insignia production candidates, no firm evidence confirming such activity exists to my knowledge.  Never saw any maker stamp in any Hungarian Regency award case though these almost always appear beautifully made.  

At least 2 Hungarian language books, one focusing on the Regency period and one a general history up to 1992, describe this Order's variants and may well identify the manufacturer.  Unfortunately, I cannot read Hungarian!  An image of the cover of one general book, written by Kenyeres Denes, published 2004, follows.

Perhaps a Hungarian GMIC member could elucidate? 

    

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by 922F
spelchek

[Alex K]

Hi 922F, every little bit helps, thanks

 

Alex

[Stuka f]

Thanks Pieter.

Like I said mist that....

Edited October 10, 2016 by Stuka f

[pieter1012]

Hi 922F,

thanks very much for the information on possible makers of the Hungarian order of Merit. I didn't know the books about Hungarian orders, although unfortunately I cannot read Hungarian, the pictures will be interesting.

regards, Pieter

[paul wood]

Concerning Spink (Earlier mentioned). From the 50's till the 80's when Eddie Joslin was in charge Spink was noted for handling some of the finest orders and decorations on the market and he has some very well healed clients for them. by the early 80s when Eddie retired, they still had a good stock of orders but as the British market expanded the Orders market which was to remain quite moribund until about 10 years ago was rather dropped by them and about 5 years ago the made, in my opinion, the rather stupid decision to cease retail dealing and concentrate entirely on auctions, thus removing them from a substantial clientele who prefer to buy at  a set price rather than gamble at auction, especially as they already had a long tried and trusted retail system.

Paul

 

[pieter1012]

I remember Mr. Joslin well, and although I was a very modest client, he was always friendly and helpful.

Pieter

[new world]

I didn't know Spink was a dealer in orders and medals.

Is this the same Spink company which manufactured British and some foreign awards (they made awards for Polish government in exile)?

[922F]

Yes, New World, Spink both sold awards to collectors and manufactured national, regional and private decorations.  At one time years ago, Spink supplied insignia for most Commonwealth states, other former British possession/protectorate nations and many aligned/allied countries.  J. Jacob's Court Jewellers of the World [1978] outlines Spink manufacturing activity.  I believe the firm retailed awards for collectors from ca. 1899 until, as Paul said above, about 2009-11.   

[paul wood]

Yes they made a fortune out of Idi Amin.

Paul

[pieter1012]

What about  "emperor" Bokasa? He created many ordres, or was Arthus Bertrand the lucky one?

Pieter

[Alex K]

1 hour ago, paul wood said:

Yes they made a fortune out of Idi Amin.

Paul

I believe they made his version of the Victoria Cross.

 

image credit GMIC

[paul wood]

They did indeed, one of the few Ugandan medals that are very easy to sell.

Paul

[Alex K]

3 hours ago, paul wood said:

They did indeed, one of the few Ugandan medals that are very easy to sell.

Paul

 worth a fortune one day I bet