Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 Hello. Can someone tell me what is this Italian neck award worn by Karl Dönitz? And what class of the award? Thanks
Taz Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 I think it is the Commander's Cross of the Military Order of Savoy. Regards Eddie
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted January 18, 2019 Author Posted January 18, 2019 58 minutes ago, Taz said: I think it is the Commander's Cross of the Military Order of Savoy. Regards Eddie Thanks. Could it also be the Commander's Cross of the Order of the Saints Maurice and Lazarus?
paul wood Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 It's not Mo and Laz the points of the cross are the wrong shape definitely Savoy. Paul
922F Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) Although image quite blurred, agree with Eddie & Paul. Not at all likely the few other awards having a similar shape/color like Bulgar Civil Merit or Manchukuo Auspicious Clouds. Are the other two gents Italians? Edited January 18, 2019 by 922F spelchek
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted January 18, 2019 Author Posted January 18, 2019 52 minutes ago, 922F said: Although image quite blurred, agree with Eddie & Paul. Not at all likely the few other awards having a similar shape/color like Bulgar Civil Merit or Manchukuo Auspicious Clouds. Are the other two gents Italians? They are Italians yes.
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted January 18, 2019 Author Posted January 18, 2019 Here is another photo. Does it confirm it is the Order of Savoy?
922F Posted January 18, 2019 Posted January 18, 2019 Probably, given apparent shape of the suspension crown & Italian officers standing by.
Elmar Lang Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 I'd humbly suggest the Commander's Cross of the Order of St. Maurice and Lazarus...
922F Posted January 19, 2019 Posted January 19, 2019 You may be correct E, however, Busch & Röll [Der U-Boot-Krieg 1939–1945 — Die Ritterkreuzträger der U-Boot-Waffe von September 1939 bis Mai 1945] list Military Order of Savoy Commander's Cross (7 November 1941) but not a Maurice & Lazarus of any grade. One might think he would have had M & L but given the Military Order of Savoy's higher prestige/rank would expect that’s the one he would wear. Busch & Röll may be incomplete. In the 1980's a Bulgarian report on King Boris' funeral indicated that both Dönitz & Keitel received a Bulgarian star & sash set before the ceremonies. Do not remember exactly what decoration or if this is reported/verified elsewhere. Given their ranks would expect probably St. Alexander GC or lst class but who knows if this account is accurate or the actual award. If true then Dönitz could have also had a Maurice & Lazarus commander, if not Grand Cross.
paul wood Posted January 20, 2019 Posted January 20, 2019 I would expect that were Donitz to have been awarded a Mo and Laz it would have been a GC. The Savoy was awarded much more sparingly Paul
1812 Overture Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 Rommel's Savoy Order On 20/01/2019 at 07:10, 922F said: You may be correct E, however, Busch & Röll [Der U-Boot-Krieg 1939–1945 — Die Ritterkreuzträger der U-Boot-Waffe von September 1939 bis Mai 1945] list Military Order of Savoy Commander's Cross (7 November 1941) but not a Maurice & Lazarus of any grade. One might think he would have had M & L but given the Military Order of Savoy's higher prestige/rank would expect that’s the one he would wear. Busch & Röll may be incomplete. In the 1980's a Bulgarian report on King Boris' funeral indicated that both Dönitz & Keitel received a Bulgarian star & sash set before the ceremonies. Do not remember exactly what decoration or if this is reported/verified elsewhere. Given their ranks would expect probably St. Alexander GC or lst class but who knows if this account is accurate or the actual award. If true then Dönitz could have also had a Maurice & Lazarus commander, if not Grand Cross. A few years ago I saw an auction of the photo of Boris III's funeral on ebay. I saved his picture. Although I like it very much, I don't have the money to buy him. I hope these pictures can help you, even though they have sellers' doodles.
922F Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 1812 thank you for the above images! The 4th funeral image depicts Keitel wearing what appears to be a St. Alexander star, maybe Grand Cross with swords through the center. Conceivably, he received a St. Alexander in 1941-2 when he liaised closely with the Bulgarians during the Balkan Campaign. That possibility leaves open what, if any, Bulgarian award with star he and Dönitz may have received at the funeral. Image 7 angle seems to show Dönitz with a Romanian Michael the Brave and pinback awards but in image 5 Dönitz does not appear to wear these. Suspect that apparent image 7 awards actually relate to the Romanian officer in image 7 back standing behind and to left of Dönitz.
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted January 21, 2019 Author Posted January 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, 922F said: 1812 thank you for the above images! The 4th funeral image depicts Keitel wearing what appears to be a St. Alexander star, maybe Grand Cross with swords through the center. Conceivably, he received a St. Alexander in 1941-2 when he liaised closely with the Bulgarians during the Balkan Campaign. That possibility leaves open what, if any, Bulgarian award with star he and Dönitz may have received at the funeral. Image 7 angle seems to show Dönitz with a Romanian Michael the Brave and pinback awards but in image 5 Dönitz does not appear to wear these. Suspect that apparent image 7 awards actually relate to the Romanian officer in image 7 back standing behind and to left of Dönitz. These 3 photos show Grossadmiral Erich Raeder. I can't see Dönitz on any of the photos.
922F Posted January 21, 2019 Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Mea Culpa--too old eyes and faulty memory. Last 2 photos seem to show Raeder with a ribbon bar and pin back awards. Boris' bio Crown of Thorns reports "...Field Marshal Keitel and Grand Admiral Dönitz headed the German delegation", p 384. I find no mention of Boris' funeral in Dönitz' autobiography. It would seem extremely unusual that both Dönitz and Raeder would attend so CoT likely seems wrong! Raeder reportedly received the Grand Cross of the Order of St. Alexander with swords on September 3, 1941. It looks like the Bulgarian report claiming that both Dönitz & Keitel received a Bulgarian star & sash set before Boris' funeral ceremonies was completely incorrect! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY3A1x3ZH2Q at 1:15 3:02 certainly looks like Raeder wearing a St. Alexander GC star with Keital in background! See also Edited January 21, 2019 by 922F spelchek
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