Deutsch-Dänischer Krieg 1864

[jonv]

 

Some of the WW1-era generals, i.e. Haeseler and Plessen, were born early enough
to have taken part in the German-Danish War of 1864.

Does anyone know of a listing of German participants during this conflict?
Or ... is there a way to determine participation status by their medals/orders?

For 1864, I believe (?) there was a Verdienst-Kreuz and also a commemorative
Denk-Muenze ... but is it possible to identify these (or others) in the individual's
list of medals?

Thanks and Merry Christmas from Denver

Jon V

[dedehansen]

Hi Jon,

some medals which were awarded for the war from 1864

Düppler - Sturkreuz

Alsenkreuz

Kriegsdenkmünze 186

Centenarmdedaille

I mean, that you can find some names from officers from 1866 and 1871,

who were used again in the 1 WW in the Ehrenrangliste des ehemaligen

deutschen Heeres from 1914 - 1918.

Kind regards
Andreas

[Glenn J]

Jon,

the basic problem is, that campaign medals were not listed in the Prussian army Ranglisten. This would include those issued for 1864, 1866, 1870-71, China and German South West Africa. Additionally commemorative medals such as the 1897 and jubilee medals are also not listed. The Deutsche Ordens-Almanach can throw some light on these awards (assuming the recipient paid to have all his awards listed). 

Regards

Glenn

[Komtur]

14 hours ago, jonv said:

 

Does anyone know of a listing of German participants during this conflict?
Or ... is there a way to determine participation status by their medals/orders?

For 1864, I believe (?) there was a Verdienst-Kreuz and also a commemorative
Denk-Muenze ... but is it possible to identify these (or others) in the individual's
list of medals?

There exist some lists of persons, who got decorations for this war, sorted by units in the archive Geheimes Staatsarchiv Preußischer Kulturbesitz. But I do not know, if these are conserved completely for all decorations and all units over the years.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Komtur

[Utgardloki]

Very interesting

That bar is beautiful. It is a NCO/enlisted bar, am I right? The Militär-Ehrenzeichen 2.Klasse was the equivalent to the Iron Cross 2nd class in wars were there was no EK?

[jonv]

Thanks, fellows, for the quick response! ... sort of good news - bad news. 

I'm wondering, Glenn, if since the Ranglisten do not show campaign medals, are there other clues pointing toward the soldier having been engaged in war?  I mean, I may just have to be satisfied with confirming the individual's active duty status in 1864  ((for example, I found both SekLt Hans von Plessen and PremLt Graf von Haeseler)) ... but I thought, certainly Prussia would somehow officially recognize a combat veteran in the RL.

currently thumbing through Militaer-Wochenblatt items but wow, so tedious:
 

[Glenn J]

Hi Jon,

it can be a bit hit and miss. Regimental histories often contain the "Kriegsrangliste" of the regiment detailing the participating officers and usually if a regiment has an "Offizier-Stammliste" that will also usually mention participation during a conflict. However, with regard to one of your examples above, Hans von Plessen; although he was an active officer at the time of the 1864 campaign, he did not see combat. Although his Wikipedia entry would leave one to believe "he participated" in the 1864 war against Denmark, he was actually serving with the replacement battalion of Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 4 in the Rhineland during that campaign. Consequently you will not find a "Kriegsdenkmünze" for 1864 on any of his portraits.

As an aside, the Bavarians are much more accommodating; they listed just about everything in their Militär-Handbuch.

Regards

Glenn

[Glenn J]

Jon,

I mentioned the Deutsche Ordens-Almanach. Both the 1904/05 and 1908/09 are available on line. See here:

https://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/eb/2013/0153/

https://archiv.ub.uni-marburg.de/eb/2013/0152/

Here is General von Plessen's entry from 1908/1909. His campaign medals for 1866 and 1870-71 are highlighted.

Regards

Glenn

 

[jonv]

Glenn -- these are nice references, so thanks!
Cases such as Plessen stumps me ... as you point out, an active duty soldier will not necessarily be engaged in a conflict more limited in scope.  But ... his career does span back to that time frame. ?

[spolei]

Hello,
here a medal of the Danish army.

[jonv]

??

[jonv]

Wow, Glenn - the Deutsche Ordens-Almanachs are great, although maybe a bit unwieldy. 
I'm assuming they are very authoritative, or have you noticed errors?

Example1:  the two Guenthers Etzel and Pappritz are both confirmed in the Rangliste as Ostasiatisches Expeditionskorps veterans, but neither is credited with China-Denkmuenze DChM in 1904 / 1908. 

Example2:  Max v Prittwitz u Gaffron is credited with DChM in 1908, but I can't find evidence he ever went to Asia.

My question is if I assume the Almanach is correct or does my cross-referencing with the RLs demonstrate errors?

[Dave Danner]

The DOA was a private vanity project, sort of like Who's Who, but Germany also had Who's Who (called Wer ist's) with brief bios.  As Glenn mentioned, you paid for your entry and you self-reported your decorations. People often omitted lower awards, especially jubilee medals and sometimes campaign medals. Etzel and Pappritz are among several dozen officers who did not include their China Medals in their entries. On the flip side, the DOA entries also often fail to distinguish between the campaign medals for combatants and those for non-combatants. So Prittwitz is one of many whose China Medal in Steel is simply listed as a China Medal.

You can find the 1912 edition of Wer ist's here: https://archive.org/stream/bub_gb_LdsfAQAAMAAJ#page/n7/mode/2up

The 1922 edition is here, but only if you have a US internet proxy, due to copyright restrictions: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000054463744

As Glenn noted, Offizier-Stammlisten from the regiments in which someone served are among the best resources, but these are much harder to find. The vast majority are not digitized and for many regiments they simply do not exist.

[jonv]

ok Dave, good information.  Great info .... about Prittwitz, am I understanding correctly that he had no connection to the China campaign, that he just purchased the medal?

thanks for the Wer ist's!

[Glenn J]

Jon,

I think Dave will not mind me answering this; No, General v. Prittwitz did not buy the medal but paid for it to be included in the Almanac. He would have been awarded the medal in steel for his involvement in support of the efforts in China, for example the provision of troops from his corps for the expedition. as Dave alluded earlier, the DOA was a vanity affair and as one had to pay by length of entry for submissions in the almanac, the more parsimonious subscribers omitted their lesser awards such as campaign and jubilee medals.

Regards

Glenn

[jonv]

I really enjoy using the DOA, although frustrating to understand it is not necessarily definitive ... but having to research and cross-reference is something that makes all of this so much fun. That, and having pals who can correctly use "parsimonious" in a sentence.